Is grappling broke?

[durath]

I currently play a grappling focused PC.One of the guys I game with thinks the way grappling works is broke. Does anyone else think so? Why or why not? Also, does anyone know if the grappling rules will be altered at all in 3.5?

Personally, I think grappling works fine. If you're not strong you can pump your escape artist skill to evade would be grapplers. If you are a spellcaster and are worried about it just make sure you always have a verbal only spell on hand or a still version of a spell that would help you out.

Also, would your opinion of grappling being "broke" change if feats from oriental adventures, such as improved grapple and earths embrace, were allowed?

 

[whatisitgoodfor]

Yes, I would have to say that grappling is very broken.

For an example, take a look at the behir. He gets a grapple check at +23 followed by 6 more at +18. Combined with his Swallow Whole ability and Cleave feat, that's a lot of chances for chances for a character to go down the gullet into the trash compactor. It can be reasonably expected that the party's two front liners will be slurped on his first full attack.

As to whether or not grappling will be changed in 3.5, they almost certainly will. Grappling causes no end of misunderstandings. At the very least, the rules should be clarified and an example grappling match should be included in the PHB.

 

[jgbrowning]

yes, broken.

joe b.

 

[Falanor]

Broken, maybe. Boring as heck. Oh yeah...I loathe a game when I have to make a grapple check (either as a game master or a player). They are not quick, nor easy, nor entertaining.

 

[hong]

You're a specialist grappler? You must have a suicide wish. Good luck against those dragons, giants and dire bears.


Hong "now take dwarven defender and be even MORE helpless" Ooi

 

[Sagan Darkside]

You're a specialist grappler? You must have a suicide wish. Good luck against those dragons, giants and dire bears.

You just need a buddy who can enlarge/polymorph the grappler. A storm giant grappler could be pretty scary.

SD

 

[durath]

You're a specialist grappler? You must have a suicide wish. Good luck against those dragons, giants and dire bears.


Hong "now take dwarven defender and be even MORE helpless" Ooi

Aw come on Hong. You must not have tried to write up a specialist grappler. I'll give you a quick stat list and see what you think of my grappler. By the way, I have successfully grappled, as in defeated, every type of giant except Storm giants. We are playing in a "against the giants" campaign afterall.

Anyway-my PC(we used a 32 point buy)

Barbarian 1, Fighter 2, Cleric 10, Frenzied Berserker 1

Str-22
Dex-10
Con-16
Int-8
Wis-17
Cha-8

Feats-Improved unarmed strike, Improved grapple, Earths Embrace, Power attack, Destructive Rage, Cleave, Intimidating Rage, Leadership, Leadership(yes I took it twice)

I have one more feat than normal because my DM house ruled that every PC could have a "blessing" if we also took a curse. The blessing was an extra feat and a +2 to an attribute( I chose strength) while the DM chose our curses(mine was a -4 to sense motive and a -4 to saves vs. illusions-I'm gullible)

I also recieved a +2 to my wisdom from a lucky draw off the deck of many things.

In any case when my PC is frenzied I have a grapple check of +27(+11 B.A.B., +11 from strength, +5 from Gloves of fearsome grip-from sword&fist) If I use my domain power from the stength domain I can get a grapple check of +32.

If I have to wrestle something bigger than size large I cast righteous might and can then wrestle even huge creatures since I am size large with that spell. Even the biggest giants in MM are only size huge and I could still wrestle with most dragons until they reach past the middle age categories.

Don't get me wrong, my PC is tough but I get my arse knocked all over the place and usually take a lot of damage when I grapple such tough opponents. The main reason I do it is so our party rogues can get their sneak attack damage vs the foe I grapple and this also keeps our foes focused on me rather than people in our party with less HP's.

 

[Felix]

What are your two cohorts? They help keep you alive while you're grappling?

 

[durath]

What are your two cohorts? They help keep you alive while you're grappling?

One cohort is my PC's daughter(a sorceress), the other I haven't even introduced into the campaign yet.

The sorceress, along with the rest of the party, does try and help me out if I strat looking bad. For the most part I generally try and target the toughest foe we face. Generally I can neutralize them and let the party pick off our other foes.

I hold my own, sometimes more -sometimes less, until they can come and help me out. I am proud of the fact that my PC has bested every type of giant(except storm giants which I have yet to face) in one on one grappling.

 

[durath]

I'd just like to add that I also hope they clarify how grappling works in 3.5 as it is very confusing. My group has how it works down pat becasue my PC kind of made us learn the grappling rules inside and out.

In any case, I'd like some more responses. If people wouldn't mind I'd like to know why you feel grappling is broken. If its broke I'd like to fix it. Just saying "yeah its broke" doesn't help me out much.