Is Greyhawk Relevant?

[Umbran]

Is Greyhawk still relevant to the modern gamer?

No, because the modern gamer barely has the imagination to play a pen-and-paper role-playing game. They certainly do not have what it takes to play in Greyhawk.

Folks,

How about we continue this discussion without the broad and blanketing insults?

Thanks.

 

[Desdichado]

Oh, man, I would LOVE this to happen. Bring back the way far out gonzo type setting - flying ships, cat people, six gun crossbows. Fantastic.

The only problem is, I think a lot of it would tread on Eberron's toes. The things that make Mystara unique have been incorporated into other settings - the generic stuff like "The Shires" and whatnot aren't really going to fly and the technomagical stuff is already in Eberron.

Me? I'd love to see Mystara come back. But, like Greyhawk, I'm not sure if there's enough "hook" there to draw people in.

Looks like it's high time someone started the spinoff thread, "Is Mystara Relevant?"

 

[Philosopher]

Someone finally quoted Our Father's introduction to the original rules. But then everyone, including the quoter, took the wrong lessons.

No, the "lesson" of the quote is not that we should make unsubstantiated blanket insults.

There's no "lesson"; I wasn't quoting Gygax as if his word is sacred ("Our Father"? I respect the man, but come on), I was quoting him because it suggests what he had in mind for his campaign. Insisting that this style is the only one worth playing is rather... unimaginative.

 

[Desdichado]

What?

40 years ago = 1970. The year that Marvel started publishing the Conan comic book. The Lancer series of Conan reprints had just been published in 1968 and would continue in print for a decade. And Jordon wouldn't publish his first Conan novel until 1982.

Exactly. And I was rounding. Only a few years before that was when Howard was "rediscovered." Before that, he was irrelevant.

I was talking about 1995-2000 for a reason. That's the time period when Howard's stories had been out of print for 15-20 years (depending on how you count) while Robert Jordon's novels were still in print.

So, basically, you couldn't be more wrong.

Well, you can hardly claim Howard was irrelevant when a popular line of books based on his character was going on, could you?

Well... I guess you could. But it would seriously undercut whatever point you're trying to make.

Well, you should probably figure out who hacked your account.

So now, not only did you not read my original post (in spite of quoting it) you also didn't read the subsequent post either.

Here's a hint for you: just because you can find the keyword you're looking for in my post doesn't mean that my post says what you claim it does. I never said being out of print was the definition of being irrelevent. I said it was one thing (among a few others listed) that would certainly characterize Greyhawk as being iconically irrelevant to today's gamer.

But hey, keep on going there with... whatever it is you're trying to point out.

 

[Desdichado]

I was pretty clear, in the passages you quoted, that my point was not about establishing the relevance of Greyhawk (indeed, as I stated, it's an open question to me). My issue was with your criterion of relevance.

But you seem to insist on misinterpreting what I say. Fine. I'll save you some trouble by pointing out that this post does not even try to establish the relevance of Greyhawk. But still, feel free to point it out again. I won't bother replying again, though.

Great. Well, then, if you're not going to actually reply to me, but are going to talk about something else... how about you... not... reply to me, then?

Might save everyone a fair bit of confusion.

 

[TikkchikFenTikktikk]

I thought my holding up the module Castle Greyhawk as the apotheosis of the setting would have tipped my hand. Ah, well. Carry on. Apologies to anyone offended.

 

[Dragonhelm]

Looks like it's high time someone started the spinoff thread, "Is Mystara Relevant?"

I would be up for such a discussion, though I think I would phrase it differently due to setting content.

How would you present Mystara for 4e?

Then talk about what would set it apart from the Realms and Greyhawk.

I'm a fan of the old TSR settings, and what makes these discussions interesting to me is looking at the settings, seeing how they can stand out one from another, and seeing how they might work with 4e and a modern audience.

So yeah, feel free to start a new thread.

 

[Mistwell]

1. Heroes in these stories may attempt anything.
* John Carter literally wills himself from a civil war battlefield to Mars and back...
2. The setting and scene are subject to the whims of the narrator...

...If anything, the core mechanic of 4th Edition is the **perfect** abstraction to make such a setting relevant again. Players can try to do anything; just roll a d20. The DM may do whatever he wishes to the setting, verisimilitude be damned; just add and subtract modifiers and set DCs as you wish.

What issue of The Sandman is it? Morpheus is in hell attempting to regain his helm, but must challenge the demon who possesses it to a game of Reality.

"I am a dire wolf, prey-stalking and lethal-prowler"
"I am a hunter, horse-mounted and wolf-stabbing"
"I am a horsefly, horse-stinging and hunter-throwing"
"I am a spider, fly-consuming and eight-legged"
etc.

Later in the series it is called "the oldest game"...anything can happen on Oerth. Because more than in any other module or source book, Castle Greyhawk demonstrates that heroes can try anything and the setting is clearly subject to the whims of the narrator. It is a tautology, but because of this Greyhawk is the most "D&D-ish" it is the best of any setting.

It sounds to me like you are describing the Amber setting, and the Amber Diceless game, rather than the Greyhawk setting, and the D&D game. There are far more boundaries in D&D and Greyhawk than in something like Amber and the Diceless rules.

 

[evileeyore]

Our Father's ... Our Father ... Our Father

Can we keep the real world religious discusions out of the gaming area please?

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I thought my holding up the module Castle Greyhawk as the apotheosis of the setting would have tipped my hand. Ah, well. Carry on. Apologies to anyone offended.

I think it might have helped to mention WG7. Then it would have clicked a bit better. I go back far enough that just saying Castle Greyhawk doesn't automatically bring to mind the module you referenced (I have it, but long ago dismissed it as irrelevant), and more recent gamers would only recall Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk or Castle Zagyg.