Kamikaze Midget said:
Okay.
Other people prefer Charisma and Intelligence (for instance).
What makes your view any more important than theirs?
Nothing. I never said they were wrong. Nor did I say (or did I think I implied) that mine was the only correct view. I expressed my opinion, my preference, just as everyone else has done. Why should I be the one being singled out for expressing my opinion? Why should mine be less important and therefore not be made? Can I not express a contrary opinion to what is being said? I had not thought I made my statement in a demeaning manner toward people who had a difference preference than I do.
My purpose in doing so was to express an opinion that was in agreement with WotC on in this in that I don't see intelligence as necessary and important for someone to fit in a rogue-paradigm. I don't think intelligence is implied in being a rogue as it is in being a wizard (as WotC has defined wizards). Of course, I much prefer playing skill monkeys, and my last rogue had an Int of 17 or 18 by game's end. It doesn't mean I don't play that way...I just don't see it as important to fill the role the way I see either strength or charisma filling the roll (the athletic rogue or the smooth-talker).
I think they're trying hard to get rid of the idea of a "dump stat," and trying to avoid the "one ability score pigeonhole."
I don't know why that means that rogues don't deserve abilities keyed to Intelligence, or how that explains ejecting several valid archetypes from being represented by the Rogue, but maybe you aren't saying that.
I was not saying this either. I don't see valid archetypes being ejected by the current system, either, since nothing in this implied that Int was not important, so that a valid mastermind planning rogue could not be made. In fact, in my mind, if you have three stats that are only mildly important (con for some bonus health, wisodm for a little more will save, and int for a little bit added to skills), then none of them are actually dump stats. As I said, I would like to see ALL stats be of some small benefit to each class (as opposed to 3e where charisma either was a prime or was not important at all except for some bonus to skill), with 1-3 main stats having significant advantage to that class...and I would love it if classes weren't pigeon holed into 1 main stat, but I find it hard to believe that one.
I said in another threat a while back that I would love to see classes have 2 or 3 prime abilities that their class powers use (in this case, it seems the rogue tends toward using str, dex, and cha) with feats that require other stats. A smart rogue would then be able to pick up something a wise rogue could not, and vice versa.
I see the classes as being fairly standardized with feats being the main points of customization. A rogue will want dex and either str or cha to do their things well, and will pick their powers based on that. Your rogue might want Int to pick up these other feats, while my rogue might prefer Con or Wisdom in order to go down this feat path. This allows us to futher customize our rogues away from each other by emphasizing the difference in our stats.
If the only difference between your intelligent rogue and my wisdom rogue is your skills are a little better and my will save is a little higher, there isn't much difference at all and the stats did very little to emphasize how we are dunique. However, if we have completely different feats because of those stats...then suddenly we are quite different indeed, and each might have a little bit more of a niche we can fill in the party. If they decide to do this same thing by having 1 power based off int while another is based of wisdom, that is fine and will likewise customize characters, but it should then be offered for all the stats, not just int.
