D&D 5E Is It Impossible To Benefit From 'One With Shadows'?

[Corwin]

Has anyone ever run this up the flagpole to get insight from JC on the RAI?

 

[Rya.Reisender]

Has anyone ever run this up the flagpole to get insight from JC on the RAI?

What question exactly?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Because he is not hidden, which is what hiding does.

So, you didn't read anything but that sentence, then?

 

[Helldritch]

From my point of view, you read the ability wrongly and perfectly at the same time.

One with shadow makes you invisible. But you can't move and taking any actions negates it. Pretty weak isn't it?

But...
From the ennemy's perspective, you went invisible. Most invisibility powers let you move as you want. Where are you now? No need to hide. You're invisible.
How did you do it? Remember that not all warlocks take that power. Invisibility is still something common enough that it will be assumed to be the standard invisibility many know or have heard about.
From your ennemy's perspective you might have: Used an item activation? A spell of somekind? Maybe you used some potion he has not seen? Maybe you just teleported?

The ennemy will try to find you. In a combat situation, there is a lot of noise comming from different events around and in the combat zone. No one fights for his life silently. That means that going stealthy while invisible is easy and everyone knows that.

Should your ennemy assume that you are locked into place? Of course not. He will try to find you and will assume you moved somewhere else in the mean time. It is highly probable that the ennemy will try to assume where you would go and go try to find you there. An invisible ennemy is never a good thing to have and most people will assume, rightly so, that the invisible one moved into a more advantageous position.

All that to say: You DM should not play his monster/npcs with the knowledge that you are a warlock and that you used that hability. Invisibility is in the warlock's spell list after all and in all arcane spell casters. Most monsters/npcs won't be able to tell a mage from a sorcerer from a warlock.

But you used eldritch blast! The monster saw you. So now he knows that you are a warlock.
Welcome to my world where the bard that took eldritch blast as magic initiate...
Even a knowledgable wizard won't assume that much.

In conclusion. No that hability is not useless. It can be used and it works as intended. A deception from a class very adept at deception.

 

[Edwin Suijkerbuijk]

Invisibility is about more than just hiding.

Invisibility affects creatures with darkvision (as well as normal vision). That's one major way that the ability helps players -- they can be invisible (and so harder to hit, have advantage on attacks) even when they're not hiding.

I diden't read the whole tread so don't know if it was mentioned.
But one of the benifits people often over look when it comes to invisiblity is that is makes you unable to be targeted by certain spells and abilities.
For example magic Missle can only target creatures you can see, you might know where the invisible warlock is but can't see him so can't target him with MM

 

[Corwin]

What question exactly?

The basic premise of this thread, of course. How is this ability, as written, intended to be used/useful given its limitations in conjunction with rules for being hidden?

 

[Henry]

The basic premise of this thread, of course. How is this ability, as written, intended to be used/useful given its limitations in conjunction with rules for being hidden?

Exactly. To be honest, from both the name and the imagery that the ability invokes (pun intended) when describing it, i would think it's intended to be for hiding unobserved in shadows. You're better off with casting invisibility as a spell, for that matter, if tou want to ditch an enemy.

 

[Corwin]

Well, yeah. Exactly. Has anyone consulted the sage about the intent of the ability? Do we know if it was indeed intended not to work because a hide check is technically an action? Or was that an oversight and the ability wasn't supposed to be that restrictive? That's what I was asking. What was the RAI. Because I really don't care about RAW. I want to know what the devs intended. That's more useful insight to me when considering how the ability should function.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Definately absurd.

But also, my question stands. If you were behind a wall or solid bookcase in that room, how is that different from being in a different room? If they get close, sure, but surely by then you will have had the chance to actually Hide, right?

That would be perfectly fine (after all, you can assume it takes a few seconds to get into a position, stop shuffling your feet, and try to be quiet) if the invisibility granted by the invocation didn't deactivate when you tried to hide.

But IMO it's also obvious that the One With Shadows should allow you to use the Hide action without losing the benefit, or that stealth should allow you to become make the stealth check to become hidden as part of the action that gives you the conditions to make the check, rather than always requiring an action to...stop breathing so loud? :eye roll:

Exactly! It should, but as written it clearly doesn't.

No benefit? I do think there is one. Not damage wise, because you replace two normal attacks with one attack at advantage, which is slightly worse (and you could just use the "Help" action for that). But in terms of defense, it's better. You end your turn invisible, so first of all, almost all creatures would probably go for your allies rather than you. And even if they went for you, their attacks are at disadvantage (if the attacks rely on sight).
It's a nice damage control skill and probably allows you go for less CON too.

There is a benefit, but it kind of sucks compared to other options. You can use your action to grant yourself that defensive buff. You can't do anything but stand there though. No spellcasting, no attacking, not even any moving. Highly situational. Not worth an invocation compared to most other options.

Has anyone ever run this up the flagpole to get insight from JC on the RAI?

Yes. But he hasn't responded. Perhaps three or four more people should ask?

But...
From the ennemy's perspective, you went invisible. Most invisibility powers let you move as you want. Where are you now? No need to hide. You're invisible.
How did you do it? Remember that not all warlocks take that power. Invisibility is still something common enough that it will be assumed to be the standard invisibility many know or have heard about.
From your ennemy's perspective you might have: Used an item activation? A spell of somekind? Maybe you used some potion he has not seen? Maybe you just teleported?

Except, because you didn't hide, he can still hear you and knows precisely where you are. Those questions don't enter his mind because you are over there making noise. That's how the rules work.

 

[Rya.Reisender]

I think the ability's description "When you are in an area of dim light or darkness, you can use your action to become invisible until you move or take an action or a reaction." is very clear and there's no two ways to interpret it, so don't see the need to ask JC?