Is it time for 5E?

[CleverNickName]

I concede that there are people who will always feel insulted when others speak ill of a game they like. And there are those who feel they will be left behind or miss out on new material unless they play the latest edition. And that there are those who feel that past edition X didn't get the support, acknowledgement, respect, or time in the limelight that it deserved. And I think that most of these so-called edition wars are just gamers reminiscing about the Good Old Days and blowing off steam--we should probably not take them so seriously.

But none of this has anything to do with the eventuality of a 5th Edition. Our discussion of it in these forums won't hinder or hasten it...we are pretty cool, but we aren't THAT cool. And 4E Love/Hate isn't a factor...until it affects sales. As others have said, 5E will be released when it makes sense for The Wizards to do so.

I happen to think it will be sooner rather than later, but that's just one nerd's opinion. I'm no more right or wrong than anyone else in this thread. (shrug)

 

[Maggan]

I've never had a problem like that with others for any other game system...maybe I'm just blessed.

I don't know if you are blessed or I am cursed, but the only game I play that I haven't seen massive edition wars over is Call of Cthulhu.

Well, apart from the massive flame war over Call of Cthulhu d20 vs Call of Cthulhu BRP, that is.

One of the most frustrating was WFRPv1 vs. WFRPv2.

/M

 

[JeffB]

I don't know if you are blessed or I am cursed, but the only game I play that I haven't seen massive edition wars over is Call of Cthulhu.

Indeed And there is a very obvious answer for why that is.

For those who don't play, it's because each " new edition" of CoC is 95% just adding additional material from supplements, clarifying a rule or mechanic, and providing erratta. On occasion they have added a skill or removed a few and rolled them into one new skill, or added a new rule to cover a specific situation that comes up fairly often, but thats it. Not to mention, nearly every edition has a blurb that tells you "here's what we added, here's what we changed", so any prospective buyer can determine whether or not it' even neccessary for them to plunk down the $.

You can take a Chaosium product from 1983's 2nd edition era, and it will be 95% (or even more) usable with the current "6th edition" rulebook without any "prep" or conversions needed beforehand.

While it may not be the huge seller it once was, it's fans are extremely loyal to the game system, and to Chaosium, and often upgrade whether they feel a need to or not.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

ne of the most frustrating was WFRPv1 vs. WFRPv2.

/M

I remember skimming a WFRPG 2 book and deciding that there was not enough difference to justify buying it. What did I miss? I thougth there was very little difference.

 

[Kraydak]

I don't know if it has been brought up yet, but all 3 FR boards on the WotC site have multiple-month old threads on their front page (at least when I checked a few minutes ago). I have to imagine that that is a "heads-rolling" level of problem, but could be very FR specific, given 4e's handling of the setting. Eberron... is doing a little better.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

Where was a I going with this...got sidetracked with just how disgusted I got with those two guys...It was so disgusting it actually turned me off of what probably was a good game system overall.

I ran a few 4E games when it first came out even though I was less than enamored with the system. I decided that I'd stay with 3.5 and then moved over to Pathfinder when it was released. I probably will never play 4E again though, despite the fact that it's a well designed system. One of the reasons is that it's not a play style than i'm interested in being part of. But then again I've played games that I'm not huge fan of before. Another part of it is a few people at my local D&D meetup were pretty boorish when it came to talking about 3x/Pathfinder. I'm pretty much content to play what I like and was pretty even handed about how feel about both systems (both have things that I like and things that I dont). But one of the organizers could not leave well enough alone and couldn't really post without taking a dig at 3x/Pathfinder whenever he could.

That coupled with the people here who did pretty much the same thing for about a year (a lot of whom are still on ignore, which is the only way I can really stomach coming back here sometimes) has pretty much kept me from trying 4E again at any point, with ANYONE (even people that I like) even in a one shot game.

Now I've seen the 3x people do the same thing and they're just as bad and in some cases worse. But to lay blame directly on one group isn't exactly accurate or fair. It's BOTH groups who are being equally douchey about this. If everyone simply played what they liked and didn't really give a crap about what anyone else was doing it would go a long way towards everyone getting along a little better. At this point it's like were all like sports fans, we're rooting passionately for our own teams, but taking a dump all over our rivals when ever we can, JUST BECAUSE.

 

[DandD]

I ran a few 4E games when it first came out even though I was less than enamored with the system. I decided that I'd stay with 3.5 and then moved over to Pathfinder when it was released. I probably will never play 4E again though, despite the fact that it's a well designed system. One of the reasons is that it's not a play style than i'm interested in being part of. But then again I've played games that I'm not huge fan of before. Another part of it is a few people at my local D&D meetup were pretty boorish when it came to talking about 3x/Pathfinder. I'm pretty much content to play what I like and was pretty even handed about how feel about both systems (both have things that I like and things that I dont). But one of the organizers could not leave well enough alone and couldn't really post without taking a dig at 3x/Pathfinder whenever he could.

That coupled with the people here who did pretty much the same thing for about a year (a lot of whom are still on ignore, which is the only way I can really stomach coming back here sometimes) has pretty much kept me from trying 4E again at any point, with ANYONE (even people that I like) even in a one shot game.

Now I've seen the 3x people do the same thing and they're just as bad and in some cases worse. But to lay blame directly on one group isn't exactly accurate or fair. It's BOTH groups who are being equally douchey about this. If everyone simply played what they liked and didn't really give a crap about what anyone else was doing it would go a long way towards everyone getting along a little better. At this point it's like were all like sports fans, we're rooting passionately for our own teams, but taking a dump all over our rivals when ever we can, JUST BECAUSE.

Obnoxious tweerps are obnoxious, no matter what hobby they pursue.

 

[GreyLord]

I agree with nearly everything you say, but...

[tongue in cheek] You have been blessed. Traveller: The New Era; that had a real flame war, not the mamby-pamby stuff that passes for one nowadays.[/tongue in cheek]

Seriously, it got nasty. And it still lives on, twenty years later.

Ah, I have heard some grumbilngs about Traveller. I never got into the game to tell the truth. Early on when I first looked at it, for some reason I thought it looked complicated (and this coming from a guy who plays SFB...none the less!) and never really tried it any further. Later on with later editions...I just never got the interest. Looks like I missed out on the oldest flame war out there (though there were some pretty ragged arguments occasionally over some wargames and their rule interpretations) that was really hot perhaps?

Still haven't really looked at the new Traveller stuff either. Perhaps I should try someday, but now (perhaps from those disagreements long ago) I get several different answers on which version to try and what supplements when I questions some Traveller gamers.

I remember skimming a WFRPG 2 book and deciding that there was not enough difference to justify buying it. What did I miss? I thougth there was very little difference.

Hmmmm....where to begin. There's enough that I'm sort of at a loss.

No alignments

Only use the D10

Racial stats are different

Feats and skills...errr I mean talents are in some ways like feats IMO and are the same names as some skills of old

the four class divisions do not exist anymore...no rolling up your starting career on the Ranger, Warrior, Rogue or Scholar lists, it's one big list now

Attributes increase in 5% increments instead of 10% (this was a biggie for me)

you can invest more in skills to get skill mastery

No Dragon Slayer

Only using D10's obviously affect combat in a major way.

Magic handles differently

Insanity handles differently

And a horde of other things.

Hope that describes it all in really short summary. I actually like WHFRP 2e, the changes into 3e were FAR more drastic (completely different game system....WHFRP 1e is probably more different than BECMI D&D or AD&D compared to 4e D&D if that says anything about WFRP 3e mechanics).

This is off the top of my head, so hopefully I gave somewhat of an idea of the differences.

I don't know if it has been brought up yet, but all 3 FR boards on the WotC site have multiple-month old threads on their front page (at least when I checked a few minutes ago). I have to imagine that that is a "heads-rolling" level of problem, but could be very FR specific, given 4e's handling of the setting. Eberron... is doing a little better.

Oh my gosh, now that was a hot flamewar when it started. The changes to FR, I don't think I've ever seen a community so hopping mad. I think there were more FR fans that were angry (higher percentage at least) with that change then the percentage of those upset about the change to 4e...or even the change from AD&D to 3e. If it weren't for LFR I'd say WotC had made the FR just about extinct with that move...I used to play FR...I don't anymore. That about covers that. They're loss.

Other than that I think I simply stay out of those arguments about FR overall.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

snip


Hmmmm....where to begin. There's enough that I'm sort of at a loss.

No alignments

Only use the D10....

Thanks for the info, sounds like I might have missed out, some of those changes sounded interesting. Not really into Warhammer these days but I could see myself picking up a copy if I come across one.

 

[M.L. Martin]

One of the most frustrating was WFRPv1 vs. WFRPv2.

/M

Was it worse than the WFRP2 vs. WFRP3 flamewars? I only saw the edges of those, but they seemed nasty--almost as bad as the Endless Edition War that dawned in late 2007 and rages to this day in D&D fora.

And another one I've observed--go talk to oWoD fans about Mage 2nd vs. Mage Revised.