D&D 5E Is my DM being fair?

[iserith]

Do you mean the rules wherein you created your own rule on how to handle passive perception? That ruleset? Or the rules as I seen used in play on Twitch Streams sponsored by WoTC?

And no you interpretation does not cover it at all, nor does ArialBlacks. The rules are not straightjacket, in fact rules lawyers are ruins the game. And, as I have showed, both of you are reading into the rules things that are not their by a strict reading (as you want) or adding rules like your link to on how to handle passive perception, which is not in the rule book at all.

The approach I presented on how to handle passive Perception is, in fact, based upon the rules for passive checks, travel pace, working together, activities while traveling, among others. All of those are right in the Basic Rules. Whether or not anyone on a Twitch stream plays the game based on the rules is irrelevant to whether the rules cover the situations you have described in this thread. Because the rules do cover those situations you referenced.

The GAME is important, the flow of the GAME is important.

Technically, the answer you should give to the OP is that your dm is always right and entitled to modify every rule in the book because that actually is said in the rule set. You should completely and utterly agree with the DM the original poster is complaining about, and be against the OP as the DMG, Page 4, states:

The D&D rules help you and the other players have a good time, but the rules aren't in charge. You're the DM, and you are in charge of the game.

Since, as you state, you should never DEVIATE from the rules you must therefore agree with the DM in charge of the OP game.

BYE

I'm not sure where any of this is coming from. Do you posit a situation where using the rules and having a good flowing game are incompatible? That's certainly not been my experience, so I'm not sure what your point is here. You referenced some situations. You got the rules wrong. We showed you how you can use the rules to achieve what appeared to be what you wanted in a fair and consistent manner. And suddenly you're ranting about rules lawyers?

 

[smbakeresq]

The approach I presented on how to handle passive Perception is, in fact, based upon the rules for passive checks, travel pace, working together, activities while traveling, among others. All of those are right in the Basic Rules. Whether or not anyone on a Twitch stream plays the game based on the rules is irrelevant to whether the rules cover the situations you have described in this thread. Because the rules do cover those situations you referenced.



No it isn't. To me the mere fact that you took the time and effort to make up a chart and create new player actions that don't exist in the rules yet claim the rules set handles all situations means that you have to follow a ruleset at all costs instead of just winging it and moving on. You are the extreme Lawful Neutral, like a Modron.


The D&D rules help you and the other players have a good time, but the rules aren't in charge. You're the DM, and you are in charge of the game.


Read page 4 of the DMG again. Also, agree that since the above is a rule, you would clearly agree with original posters DM as the rules state the DM is always in charge and nothing else matters but following the rules so whatever the DM says goes even if it screws over the players and makes no sense since its in the rules.


Follow the flow of the story you are creating and don't worry about creating an entire new set of player actions to cover what amounts to 2 sentences in the PHB. You game will take half as long with twice as much fun as more dice hit the table from running 3 times as many encounters.

 

[iserith]

No it isn't. To me the mere fact that you took the time and effort to make up a chart and create new player actions that don't exist in the rules yet claim the rules set handles all situations means that you have to follow a ruleset at all costs instead of just winging it and moving on. You are the extreme Lawful Neutral, like a Modron.

So let me try to understand your assertion: Because I organized the rules into a handy chart, then what is in that chart is not in the rules. Okay. Let's test that out.

Marching Order - page 64 of the Basic Rules.
Keeping Watch, Drawing a Map, Tracking, Navigating - page 65.
Working Together - page 59.
Moving Stealthily - page 64.
Passive Checks - page 59.

Would you like to retract your assertion?

The D&D rules help you and the other players have a good time, but the rules aren't in charge. You're the DM, and you are in charge of the game.


Read page 4 of the DMG again. Also, agree that since the above is a rule, you would clearly agree with original posters DM as the rules state the DM is always in charge and nothing else matters but following the rules so whatever the DM says goes even if it screws over the players and makes no sense since its in the rules.

Follow the flow of the story you are creating and don't worry about creating an entire new set of player actions to cover what amounts to 2 sentences in the PHB. You game will take half as long with twice as much fun as more dice hit the table from running 3 times as many encounters.

I don't dispute that the DM's in charge. You can even see my response to the OP in Post #5 which suggests deferring to the DM's wishes in this matter.

You posted that people don't understand the rules. Then when corrected on those rules, you suggested some situations that don't make sense to you when using the rules. Then myself and others showed you how it can. In other words, we showed you how to get what you want within the framework of the rules. For that effort, I'm an "extreme Lawful Neutral, like a Modron," or a rules lawyer, or that my game takes twice as long and is half as fun as they could be. None of that could be farther from the truth. You don't know me. You don't know what my games are like. So would you like to retract that as well?

 

[Arial Black]

Do you mean the rules wherein you created your own rule on how to handle passive perception? That ruleset? Or the rules as I seen used in play on Twitch Streams sponsored by WoTC?

And no you interpretation does not cover it at all, nor does ArialBlacks. The rules are not straightjacket, in fact rules lawyers are ruins the game. And, as I have showed, both of you are reading into the rules things that are not their by a strict reading (as you want) or adding rules like your link to on how to handle passive perception, which is not in the rule book at all.

The GAME is important, the flow of the GAME is important.

Technically, the answer you should give to the OP is that your dm is always right and entitled to modify every rule in the book because that actually is said in the rule set. You should completely and utterly agree with the DM the original poster is complaining about, and be against the OP as the DMG, Page 4, states:

The D&D rules help you and the other players have a good time, but the rules aren't in charge. You're the DM, and you are in charge of the game.


Since, as you state, you should never DEVIATE from the rules you must therefore agree with the DM in charge of the OP game.

BYE

Just because the PHB mentions that you can ignore/change any rule you want, this does not mean that there are no rules!

Sure, DM's can change/ignore rules. Does that mean that there can be no thread asking about the rules without the first reply shutting the thread down? "You can ignore the rules, so talking about them is meaningless!"?

 

[Chris Clinch]

me as a DM, If I allowed it at level one then it is on me, I would let you keep it, there are always ways around it.

 

[smbakeresq]

So let me try to understand your assertion: Because I organized the rules into a handy chart, then what is in that chart is not in the rules. Okay. Let's test that out.

Marching Order - page 64 of the Basic Rules.
Keeping Watch, Drawing a Map, Tracking, Navigating - page 65.
Working Together - page 59.
Moving Stealthily - page 64.
Passive Checks - page 59.

Would you like to retract your assertion?



I don't dispute that the DM's in charge. You can even see my response to the OP in Post #5 which suggests deferring to the DM's wishes in this matter.

You posted that people don't understand the rules. Then when corrected on those rules, you suggested some situations that don't make sense to you when using the rules. Then myself and others showed you how it can. In other words, we showed you how to get what you want within the framework of the rules. For that effort, I'm an "extreme Lawful Neutral, like a Modron," or a rules lawyer, or that my game takes twice as long and is half as fun as they could be. None of that could be farther from the truth. You don't know me. You don't know what my games are like. So would you like to retract that as well?

What rules set are you talking about? There is no basic rules, there is the DMG, PHB, etc. Are you talking from the SRD, page 64 is about Armor. The DMG page 64 is about the Nine Hells. Marching Order is on page 183 of the PHB, and never mentions Passive Perception at all:

M a r c h i n g O r d e r The adventurers should establish a marching order. A marching order makes it easier to determine which characters are affected by traps, which ones can spot hidden enemies, and which ones are the closest to those enemies when a fight breaks out. A character might occupy the front rank, one or more middle ranks, or the back rank. Characters in the front and back ranks need enough room to travel side by side with others in their rank. When space is too tight, the marching order must change, usually by moving characters to a middle rank. Fewer Than Three Ranks. If an adventuring party arranges its marching order with only two ranks, they are a front rank and a back rank. If there’s only one rank, it’s considered a front rank.


Passive Checks are on page 175 in the PHB.


Are you not using any of the books or the SRD (which is outdated BTW?) What source are you using, not a single one of your page numbers matches anything and none of the sections you reference says what you think it says.


Do you not have the PHB with the sage advice corrections? Are you using the starter set rules?

 

[iserith]

What rules set are you talking about? There is no basic rules, there is the DMG, PHB, etc. Are you talking from the SRD, page 64 is about Armor. The DMG page 64 is about the Nine Hells. Marching Order is on page 183 of the PHB, and never mentions Passive Perception at all:

M a r c h i n g O r d e r The adventurers should establish a marching order. A marching order makes it easier to determine which characters are affected by traps, which ones can spot hidden enemies, and which ones are the closest to those enemies when a fight breaks out. A character might occupy the front rank, one or more middle ranks, or the back rank. Characters in the front and back ranks need enough room to travel side by side with others in their rank. When space is too tight, the marching order must change, usually by moving characters to a middle rank. Fewer Than Three Ranks. If an adventuring party arranges its marching order with only two ranks, they are a front rank and a back rank. If there’s only one rank, it’s considered a front rank.

Passive Checks are on page 175 in the PHB.

Are you not using any of the books or the SRD (which is outdated BTW?) What source are you using, not a single one of your page numbers matches anything and none of the sections you reference says what you think it says.

Do you not have the PHB with the sage advice corrections? Are you using the starter set rules?

When discussing matters on the forums, I usually quote and reference the Basic Rules which are available on the Wizards website as a PDF. I do that so that anyone who wants to look up the rule but doesn't have the book on them can use the PDF. I also reference the PDF because they can be keyword searched whereas a physical book cannot. I suppose there's the possibility that someone might have a pirated PDF of the PHB, so that he or she could, say, copy and paste the entry for "Marching Order," but you would't do that, would you? I like to assume people don't engage in that sort of thing and can use the Basic Rules for reference when they don't have a physical copy of the book with them.

In any case, the rules I referenced are the same in the PHB and the August 2017 errata includes no changes to the referenced rules. You can cross-reference if you want. They're all there and I invite you to review them. I think you'll find everything I've posted is correct. More importantly though, I think you'll find that the rules referenced by Arial Black and myself address the concerns you have with the particular game situations you mentioned upthread. You have thus far failed to acknowledge that and I hope you'll come around to seeing that as being true since we were trying to help you achieve what you wanted while still being in the framework of the rules.

 

[BookBarbarian]

What rules set are you talking about? There is no basic rules

Of course there are basic rules! They've been around since 2014. http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/basicrules

 

[KahlessNestor]

Basic Rules are even on D&D Beyond.

 

[smbakeresq]

Of course there are basic rules! They've been around since 2014. http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/basicrules

My god I didn't know people still used those with every book being out somewhere...

I forgot they even existed in once the books came out and the errata also years ago.