D&D 4E Is my friend's unwillingness to try 4e irrational?

[Lord Zardoz]

If he is not the one paying for it, I suppose it is somewhat irrational. Like or hate what you have heard about the new edition, there is no harm in trying a one shot unless your spare time is truly at a premium.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[howandwhy99]

It sounds like he felt backed into a corner and wasn't able to communicate his real reasons for not desiring to play 4e. It does seem irrational to me to not even want to try out the game as a player. It's not like it has you pretending to be pink bunnies or something. But it's his choice in the end.

It may be too late, but you could simply offer a standing seat for any try-out session he wants to sit in on. That way he doesn't feel excluded and, if playing 4th for him is like running 3.5 for you, he has the option of backing out gracefully. It's not like an inquisition here. This isn't exactly a decision we should force others to justify.

Personally, I think you'll do better with honey by simply encouraging him to come and try it and make it as easy as possible for him. If he stays, that's great. If not, you already knew the tentative nature of his attendance. Just keep in mind he may be showing up more to hang with you guys than to play the game. Sore spots and all that.

 

[Delta]

Some of us can't help but feel that he is now being completely irrational and childish about the whole thing. ...

What would you do?

Let him go and not insult him.

People should have a right to play in games that they like, and leave those they don't, no questions asked.

 

[PoeticJustice]

I also suspect that Bob, as well as many other 4E pooh-poohers, will eventually come around on their own. Despite the very vocal minority, I don't believe there will be any more gamers playing 3.5 in June of '09 than there are playing 2E or any other older edition of the game.

Generalizing why people aren't doing something is pretty bad form. There are a lot of reasons why not to make the switch, though I'm not going to go into them here as they've been debated to death. I wouldn't discount the large amount of gamers who don't post on the net or feel the need to give voice to their reasoning. People who aren't making the switch can get treated pretty roughly by those who are, after all.

Ultimately, you might be right about 3.5 waning in popularity, but I think comparing 3.5 to another edition is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. Sure, they're kind of similar...well, you get the idea. The point is that nobody knows what's going to happen. It might flop. It might soar. We probably won't definitely know for another 10 years, if at all.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

I think its reasonable - I know a couple of people in my gaming group are very hostile to the idea of 4E; it is to some extent an irrational reaction - meaning that they haven't read up on it or kept up with the updates and are just dismissing it out of hand - and to some extent economic. They've both spent lots of money of 3E and 3.5 (and none too happy about 3.5) and just don't want to buy more stuff - this then creates the anti-4E feelings in them. I'm guessing they'll come around, as a lot of the changes seem really well-suited to their styles, but it will take some time and some cajoling. In my experience, this happened with the 2E->3E and 3.0 ->3.5 transitions, and they eventually made the switch.

How did your friend react to those transitions?

 

[sjmiller]

In my experience, this happened with the 2E->3E and 3.0 ->3.5 transitions, and they eventually made the switch.

How did your friend react to those transitions?

I know that for me, my reaction to each of these changes has been different.

I never really played 2e AD&D. I played a little bit when it first came out, but stopped within about a year. When our group went back to playing D&D we played 1st Ed AD&D and then stopped again after a couple of years. When 3e D&D came out I had not been playing D&D for about a decade, maybe more. I was very excited about this edition change, and bought the new core books as soon as they came out. I formed a new group, started playing, and have been playing since then.

When 3.5e D&D came around I was a bit miffed. I did not see a need for a new edition, and did not understand why some of the changes were made. I looked through stuff as it came out and cherry-picked things to add to my ongoing 3e game. I continue doing that, printing up a nice Curmudgeon's Compendium for my players.

With 4e D&D I am well beyond miffed. I really do not see the reason for a new edition. I do not like what I have seen so far. They have taken out things I like, added things I do not like, and everything so far seems to be taking the game in a direction I do not wish to go. This is the first new edition of D&D that I have absolutely no desire to buy. Could this change in the future? Maybe, but I doubt it. The game appears to be tailored to a different gaming philosophy than mine. That's cool. I don't like the World of Darkness games either, so I don't buy them.

I was hoping that 4e D&D would be a few more years down the road, and would do things differently than what they say it is going to do. But, back to the original quote I used. My reactions to the different transitions were:

2e to 3e: Extremely excited
3e to 3.5e: Miffed, but willing to mine for material
3.5e to 4e: Annoyed, dissatisfied with the changes, not interested

This is very different than my views of the various editions of Traveller, for example. In that case my reactions were:

Original to MegaTraveller - Excited and curious, bought it and had fun.
MegaTraveller to Traveller: The New Era - Curious, looked through it, didn't like it, didn't buy it.
Traveller: The New Era to Marc Miller's Traveller (4e): Liked the changes, flaws and all, and bought what I could find. Didn't play it much, but enjoyed it.
Marc Miller's Traveller to Traveller 5: Anxiously awaiting my CD-ROM, which I pre-ordered. What little I saw as teasers has me really excited about playing Traveller again. Radical changes to the system are in store, but they look good.

So, it's not that I am afraid of change. It is just that I do not like the changes that are being made. So for me, I can really see where Bob is coming from on this. He may like change and new games, he may not like these particular changes.

 

[Grimstaff]

Generalizing why people aren't doing something is pretty bad form. There are a lot of reasons why not to make the switch, though I'm not going to go into them here as they've been debated to death. I wouldn't discount the large amount of gamers who don't post on the net or feel the need to give voice to their reasoning. People who aren't making the switch can get treated pretty roughly by those who are, after all.

Ultimately, you might be right about 3.5 waning in popularity, but I think comparing 3.5 to another edition is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. Sure, they're kind of similar...well, you get the idea. The point is that nobody knows what's going to happen. It might flop. It might soar. We probably won't definitely know for another 10 years, if at all.

I think I was more generalizing the reasoning for people who are making the switch, not those who aren't, whose reasons I described as "more...varied". And while I certainly havn't read every thread on the boards, the ones I have read where folks who are "declining" to try 4E have been treated "roughly" has been not in response to them saying "no thanks" but rather in response to them saying "no thanks because its crap and anyone who tries it is a mindless fanboy falling for a corporate marketing ploy."

I think if someone doesn't want to try 4E, they can do that without all the naysaying and complaining, which comes across as boorish and insulting and really gets people going.

But despite all the mudslinging, I suspect most will be playing the new edition regardless. There was a very similar reaction at the announcement of 3.5, and while there are certainly a few folks still playing 3.0, they're definitely not in the majority. So I would advise the OP not to worry, statistically speaking, at least, Bob will be happily rolling dice with the rest of you, unmindful of edition.

 

[BradfordFerguson]

Unwillingness to simply try something new is irrational to me. The rational thing for me as a person is to experience new things and grow as a person.

Anyways, I just preemptively started a streamlined rules game and it has flushed out a player who MUST be able to customize their character (and make them the most powerful in the group). I'm no longer going to have him as a player. Luckily, he also DMs for the group, so I will just let him DM and play in his group. He is adopting 4e, but 4e won't necessarily be streamlined

 

[DonTadow]

I know people who still play 1e. Some people just find an edition and feel it works for him. You can scan these boards and see all the reasons you need why certain people don't want to switch. One reason might be nothing to do with the system, but hte fact that you all will be bumbling through the rules the first few months and that will take away from the campaign.

 

[Wolfspider]

Unwillingness to simply try something new is irrational to me. The rational thing for me as a person is to experience new things and grow as a person.

I don't want to try sky-diving, which would be a new experience for me.

Am I irrational?