D&D 4E Is my friend's unwillingness to try 4e irrational?
DonTadow
First Post
I probably like 4e a lot more than your friend does, but i have no intention on switching or playing it upon release. I read a ton of great systems as a reviewer for rpgnow, but the hassle of converting is much more important to me than the enjoyment of playing with some new toys.Wolfspider said:
I also want to read a real review from a non WOTC source. I just don't beleive that 4e will grant me three wishes. Not that I haven't liked what I've heard, but I like my reviews unbiased.
Dragonblade
Adventurer
Wolfspider said:
Yes, but trying 4e won't kill you if your chute fails to open.
BradfordFerguson
First Post
WolfSpider, I'll give you the skydiving exemption. 4e and skydiving. They are both taking a plunge, but I think the similarities end there, but since you're clever I bet you can think of more
As far as converting, I just don't see the resistance there. Let's presume that 4e will be MUCH better than 3.5, more fun to play, faster combat, etc... Are people SO attached to their characters being an exact certain way that they can't simply do a simple conversion? Instead of trying to convert it exactly?
As far as converting, I just don't see the resistance there. Let's presume that 4e will be MUCH better than 3.5, more fun to play, faster combat, etc... Are people SO attached to their characters being an exact certain way that they can't simply do a simple conversion? Instead of trying to convert it exactly?
Brother MacLaren
Explorer
"Trying something new" like sampling a new cuisine or a new movie is one thing. But trying something new can mean abandoning something cherished, and in that case you have to think long and hard about what you're giving up. Whether it's moving to a new city, ending a relationship, leaving a job, or quitting a hobby. WotC has decided to abandon 3.5 in favor of 4E. The decision doesn't have to be as drastic for players -- I could try 4E without quitting 3.5 -- but even by participating in 4E I would feel I was endorsing WotC's decisions and business model. And as a fan of 3.5 I really resent what WotC did.BradfordFerguson said:
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it." But WotC deliberately broke 3.5, accelerated splatbook power creep, introduced new and incompatible mechanics as a test for 4E. They were planning to kill off 3.5 for YEARS. And of course they're going to do this again, because splatbooks and new editions make more money than campaign settings and modules. So why should I bother falling in love with 4E when I know WotC is just going to kill it? I'm hopping off the edition treadmill for good.
There are simply too many games out there for my standard of switching systems to be "I like System X, but System Y might be more fun." With that mentality, I'd never be content with what I have, and I'd have to try hundreds of games for a couple of dozen sessions each to see if System Y really was better. Instead, my standard for switching is "I am no longer enjoying System X." And I already have two systems that I really like, so why should I look for more?
Raven Crowking
First Post
Brother MacLaren said:
Well said, sir.
RC
DonTadow
First Post
Thing is there are a ton of systems out here that are faster than 3.5 (though fun is a subjective term). Any rule that they have in 4e can probably be converted into 3.5 (and will). This will give me the chance to make and move.BradfordFerguson said:WolfSpider, I'll give you the skydiving exemption. 4e and skydiving. They are both taking a plunge, but I think the similarities end there, but since you're clever I bet you can think of more
As far as converting, I just don't see the resistance there. Let's presume that 4e will be MUCH better than 3.5, more fun to play, faster combat, etc... Are people SO attached to their characters being an exact certain way that they can't simply do a simple conversion? Instead of trying to convert it exactly?
WOTC's biggest mistake is not the mechanics, but the flavor of the game they are changing. Halflings are no longer half the size of a human, loner demon men and mystic dragon men are the norm and the classic imp (gnome) is no where to be seen. There's a warlord class and a warlock class. The flavor has be pretty much turned off right now, as much as i like some of the mechanics, the only concrete book we've seen, the flavor books, are the only real thing to make a decision on.
Upon release, 4e won't have the flavor that traditionalists want in a d and d campaign, os it will take some time for other developers to create such material.
Because playing D&D isn't just about playing D&D, its about hanging out with friends. And following the OP's scenario, your friends all want to play 4e, and are willing to loan you, or even provide you, with the materials to play. All you have to do is show up and hang out with your friends. There is no expense on your part, no pain, no agony, no nothing. You COULD boycott your own friends over this, or proclaim that anyone who expects you to play 4e is no friend of yours, or whatever. You COULD try to convince yourself that playing 4e will be so painful to you that anyone who figures you'd do it just to hang out with your buds is a jerk. Or you could just shrug, and chill with your friends on Saturday night like you always do.Brother MacLaren said:
If you play primarily with acquaintances you met through a notice on a game store bulletin board, people you'd forget in a week if you didn't see them for D&D games, that's one thing. If they start playing 4e and you don't want to, oh well. Find a new group. But not everyone plays D&D in that context, and its reasonable for a group of friends to be put out when one guy proclaims an absolute objection to the game they want to play, and refuses to hang with them because of it. Its not that his dislike of 4e is automatically unreasonable. Its that his ultimatum to his own friends is unreasonable. If everyone but you wants to play 4e, it isn't worth busting up the crew.
Yes, but it's why we love youWolfspider said:
Is there anything wrong with making irrational choices about how one spends ones free time? Because honestly, the only rational choices for free time are gardening (yum!) investing (bling!), or seeing an attractive member of the appropriate gender (nookie! Also, possibly babies!). Not to mention taking classes in a variety of skills and languages.
Preferably all of the above at once, while skydiving.
BradfordFerguson said:WolfSpider, I'll give you the skydiving exemption. 4e and skydiving. They are both taking a plunge, but I think the similarities end there, but since you're clever I bet you can think of more
As far as converting, I just don't see the resistance there. Let's presume that 4e will be MUCH better than 3.5, more fun to play, faster combat, etc... Are people SO attached to their characters being an exact certain way that they can't simply do a simple conversion? Instead of trying to convert it exactly?
If they're happy with what they have, why should they have to do any conversion at all?
I'm not so sure about that. With every new edition you lose people; especially if the changes are dramatic. It may not be a lot but it's there. When 2E came out, you lost the people who wanted to stay with 1E. With 4E, you're losing the people still playing 1E, 2E, 3.0 and 3.5. When 5E comes out, you'll have lost people still playing 1E, 2E, 3.0, 3.5, 4.0 and 4.5. Sure, some people might be brought back into the game as a result but to think that people aren't still playing old editions is silly. Lots of people still play these games, they just don't post here (much). And why should they? They get little support and older editions are widely derided.
Right now, it's a very rpg rich environment. There are multiple games for almost every genre and so people have more oppotunities to switch than before.
Will I switch to 4E? Probably not. Like may people, I have a family and other things to do. I can't be playing/running in 8 different games. The simulationist in me feels that 4E will go too far. The gamist in me feels that it won't go far enough. The storyteller/worldbuilder in me doesn't want to play any game of any edition where the game itself tries to tell me the kind of story I should be telling (no WoD/Exalted for me).
jolt
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