D&D 5E Is Paladine Bahamut? Is Takhisis Tiamat? Fizban's Treasury Might Reveal The Answer!

According to WotC's James Wyatt, Fizban's Treasury of Dragons introduces a new cosmology for dragon gods, where the same beings, including Fizban, echo across various D&D campaign settings with alternate versions of themselves (presumably like Paladine/Bahamut, or Takhisis/Tiamat). Also... the various version can merge into one single form.

Takhisis is the five-headed dragon god of evil from the Dragonlance setting. Paladine is the platinum dragon god of good (and also Fizban's alter-ego).

Additionally, the book will contain psychic gem dragons, with stats for all four age categories of the five varieties (traditionally there are Amethyst, Crystal, Emerald, Sapphire, and Topaz), plus Dragonborn characters based on metallic, chromatic, and gem dragons.

D&D 5E - Check out Fizban's Alternate Cover!

WotC's James Wyatt talked to Polygon about Fizban's Treasury of Dragons, which also revealed the alternate cover, which you can only get from hobby stores. https://www.enworld.org/threads/fizbans-treasury-the-dragon-book-now-has-a-description-and-a-feat.681399/

www.enworld.org

D&D 5E - Fizban's Treasury: The Dragon Book Now Has A Description... And A Feat

Courtesy of Amazon, we now have a description for Fizban's Treasury of Dragons, the October D&D hardcover. The book introduces gem dragons, dragon-themed player options, and plenty of draconic lore! This joins September's The Wild Beyond the Witchlight, and November's Strixhaven: Curriculum of...

www.enworld.org

 

[Bolares]

I didn't say setting, I said scenario.

sorry, what's the difference? (english is not my native language)

 

[PsyzhranV2]

Officially? Eberron has it's own set of outer planes that echo D&D cosmology, but are not directly a part of it. Is Eberron connected to the other D&D worlds? Yes. Exactly how does that work? Unclear, deliberately so. It's something that doesn't need to be explained in official lore, and only matters in your home game if you want it to.

De jure, what you're saying is true; but the entire argument is trying to figure out whether de facto, the designers at WotC are treating Eberron as a subset of the Great Wheel (based on developer's interviews and commentary outside the books), and if they are, whether or not it's a good thing.

I dont think we should use "Eberron is a small bubble within the Great Wheel" terminology. It deemphasizes Eberron's place. and may be what some folks are objecting to.

And it's not about whether we "should" use that terminology, but whether or not that terminology is an accurate description of how WotC is treating the settings, if not on paper then in practice.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

That's a False Dichotomy. There's a lot of ground in-between omniscient and clueless. Those progenitor wyrms exist in a completely isolated portion of the great wheel with a different cosmology. Why would they know about what exists outside of it? And even if they do, why would they tell the person communing with them about it? The reality of the Eberron cosmos is the isolated portion. Heck, they may know about the Great Wheel and were responsible for creating the isolation and unique Eberron cosmology. That would make the Eberron legends(not necessarily truths) "true."

You are describing a completely different kind of being from what the progenitor dragons would be in a 3.5 or 4e Eberron game wherein they created the entire universe.

I really am at a loss how folks are not getting it...

 

[Parmandur]

The Eberron novels aren't canon? Since when?

Since forver: Their events do not bear on the Setting as presented.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

sorry, what's the difference? (english is not my native language)

Scenario refers to a specific situation or series of events.

 

[Dire Bare]

since ever? Baker was always very clear about that.

Heh, Baker doesn't get to decide that! He is the original author of the setting, but doesn't own or control it.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I think this is exactly right. Being a part of the wheel, closed of in its crystal sphere doesn't make Eberron small or less important. Inifinite infinities fit inside infinite space

And on top of that... if everything is infinite... there aren't any "outer" planes or "inner" planes because you can't have placement within an infinite space. From inside the lore of D&D some "sages" came up with a diagram of the Great Wheel... just like some came up with a diagram of the World Tree... just like some came up with the Orrery. Those were diagrams made within these fictional worlds for the fictional characters to try and conceptualize infinite space.

While at the same time... us "non-fictional" people who have written for and played Dungeons & Dragons over the last 40 years have made up, drew, written about, printed, and published in a book these diagrams of all of these things. Why? To give some people some ideas of how to run their games and for places to put creatures / devils / gods that would not be native to the "world". But they are all fake. They're made up. Sorry. So no amount of trying to convince us that what was written down and published actually means something important is going to work. Because quite frankly, for myself and many of us... it doesn't.

And if your feelings about this meant anything to the writers and publishers of Wizards of the Coast, they would have come to you beforehand to ask your feelings on the matter before making any decisions and then writing those sections of the books. The fact that they didn't "playtest" these designs and statements of the "cosmology of D&D" pretty much tells us that THEY don't really feel this stuff is that important that they need to "get it right" for the entire playerbase. And that they don't care who or how many people agree or disagree with what they wrote down. Because quite frankly... they know as well as all of us should know that we as players and Dungeon Masters should, can, and will run things however the heck we want. Regardless of what they put in a book.

 

[PsyzhranV2]

The Eberron novels aren't canon? Since when?

 

[Parmandur]

Heh, Baker doesn't get to decide that! He is the original author of the setting, but doesn't own or control it.

WptC ignores the novel events, too: both the 4E and 5E Settings ignore novel events entirely.

 

[Bolares]

Scenario refers to a specific situation or series of events.

Sorry, I still don't get it.