Is "skilled guy" a good character class?

[Vespucci]

Well obviously you don't need 'skill guy' to do skills, any more than you need 'fighter guy' to do fighting or for that matter 'spell guy' to do spells. It's not like fighters have no skill points or NWP's. There is no reason why 'spell guy' should be completely inable to fight or be totally lacking in skill. He's just relatively lacking in fighting ability and practical skills compared to some others. The point is that being particularly skillful and knowledgable outside of combat is a different area of class specialization than being skilled in combat.

I worry about this approach. It's starting to sound like "class niche exists because class niche can exist". What does it represent?

To imagine a simple system

Fighter guy is good at combat and brawny things.
Spell guy is good with spells and academic things.
Skillful guy is good at academic things, brawny things, and practical things.

So indulge me on theming this: Which character from the game's literary foundation is a Skillful guy?

 

[Vespucci]

Then... we can give all some good weapon skills....

Hold off on the unlicensed reductio, cowboy. I'm not even granting your dichotomy yet. Why is it that getting rid of skill guy (who is good at every skill) makes everyone good at every skill?

 

[Jimlock]

Hold off on the unlicensed reductio, cowboy. I'm not even granting your dichotomy yet. Why is it that getting rid of skill guy (who is good at every skill) makes everyone good at every skill?

if you don't have a skill guy, you don't need a skill guy.

The others will continue doing what they already did......
+
the skill stuff...

you're already building chuck there...

What's the problem with skill guy n the first place?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

It isn't that the Fighter, the Mage or Cleric are not skilled, it is that they are "specialized" at most forms of martial combat, arcane mastery and divine channelling, respectively, so that is what they excel at. The "Skills Guy"- whatever name you slap on him- is the one who specializes in skills.

While we're at it, though it is true that spells can infringe on the roles of the Skills Guy (and the Fighter, if we're honest), I don't have a problem with that per se. If magic can launch explosive fire or make items that are bigger on the inside than on the outside, I won't argue with it making a person a better lockpick (or fighter)...I just think it should be more difficult. Relegating SOME of that to Rituals is something 4Ed sort of got right.

 

[kitcik]

Skills are underpowered if your intent is to have a skill guy.

Not only can casters do it all better with spells, but many classes are not far behind rogue in actual skills.

If you want a pure skill guy to be decent you need another system.

That said, if you want skills+ try a Factotum.

 

[Celebrim]

So indulge me on theming this: Which character from the game's literary foundation is a Skillful guy?

From the literary foundation?...Cugel the Clever.

Perusing Appendix N, Gygax's list of inspirational reading I also see:
Ulysses Paxton
Ed Clive
Eric John Stark
Randolf Carter
Batman (Gardner Fox was one of the early contributers)
Hiero Desteen
Dr. Walter Goodwin

And probably a bunch of other ones I'm not familiar with.

Also, the fairy tale typically pits a skillful trickster against monsters and magicians he cannot over come by force, so in that spirit I nominate:
Jack
Hop O' My Thumb
Puss in Boots

And many other similar characters.

From the more general field of literature:
Indiana Jones
Sherlock Holmes
The Scarlett Pimpernel
Doc Savage
Phillip Marlowe
William of Baskerville
Odyseus
Sinbad

 

[Vespucci]

I see where we disagree.

There's no way that "Skilled guy" should have a monopoly on cunning. I also refuse to translate "everyman" into "Skilled guy".

 

[Vespucci]

if you don't have a skill guy, you don't need a skill guy.

The others will continue doing what they already did......
+
the skill stuff...

you're already building chuck there...

What's the problem with skill guy n the first place?

You're short one premise.

How do we get from "if there isn't a skill guy, the other characters (plural) will do their work" to "and here we have a character (singular) who can do everything"?

By the way, I'm not even sure that it's a bad idea to have characters who are potentially effective in every situation. It shifts the spotlight from character skill on to player skill, of course.

 

[Jimlock]

How do we get from "if there isn't a skill guy, the other characters (plural) will do their work" to "and here we have a character (singular) who can do everything"?

Because the more you give a class, the less different/unique you make it
Because the more you give a class, the less the player thinks creatively.
Because the more you give a class, the more you turn that class into a superhero without flaws.(subjective... I hate superheroes capable of everything...)
Because the more you give a class, the less flaws that class has. Therefore the less flaws the character has the less a player roleplays. (A good-at-everything-guy is not really the roleplaying idol/symbol).

....

By the way, I'm not even sure that it's a bad idea to have characters who are potentially effective in every situation. It shifts the spotlight from character skill on to player skill, of course.

player skill?

I disagree (hey that's what we are supposed to do here)

Player skill is tested when there are more constraints.

Macgyver is smart because he makes bombs out of toilet cleaners,

not because he lights up the fuse of TNT.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

On that literary inspirations list, I'd take off Achilles- - and replace him with Ulysses. Achilles is a hot-head, brash & impulsive. Ulysses, OTOH, is often called "cunning", an epithet he lives up to repeatedly in story after story to the point that some among the Greeks delude themselves that his abilities in subterfuge and tactics somehow make him less manly...

...And even cunning Ulysses is more of a warrior than rogue/skills guy.

Heck, Theseus would be closer, too, but again, mapping figures like this into RPGs is always tricky. Theseus is like Ulysses in his intellect, but again, is no slouch as a warrior.

Daedelus, perhaps, is one of the best exemplars of using skills, but he's an intellectual artisan- an engineer, not a gadgeteer.

Overall, the line between the the smart, crafty skills guy and other smart, crafty heroes is more one of focus and drive than anything else. He's not necessarily smarter than the rest, he's just applying his mind to tasks in ways you might not think of...same as a mage, priest, or warrior would within their fortes.