Is the Hellfire Warlock PrC overpowered?

[Wednesday Boy]

Just like the title says, do you think the Hellfire Warlock PrC (Fiendish Codex II) is too powerful. The Constitution damage is a little bad but it seems to definitely be worth what you get for in return. I thought about playing one but don't want to get all cheesy and overpowered. If you have any experience with one or a suggestion, I'd love to hear it!

 

[XCorvis]

I have not played one, but it looks like a glass cannon to me. I would expect it to dominate in every combat until the enemy focuses on it, and then it would die horribly and quickly.

 

[rowport]

As above, I have not played one either. But, my guess would be that its playability is largely dictated by how high-powered your chargen rules are; at 25 point buy it is going to really suck to have Con damage, since an effective Warlock really needs both Cha and Dex. OTOH, if you have 32 point buy, it might be easier to handle the loss.

Either way, investing ranks in Use Magic Device and keeping a wand of lessor restoration handy is a good idea.

 

[blargney the second]

I think it's fine in a vacuum. Add in Binder and it's pretty damn powerful.

 

[Hammerhead]

Add in a level of Binder for Naberius or with Incarnum and the Soulmeld Vest (maybe), and it becomes useful. It provides a much-needed boost to the warlock, who can't even keep up with Scorching Ray.

 

[Zelc]

Warlocks even with Hellfire, overpowered? Surely you jest...



I forgot exactly how much damage it is, but even something like 14d6 damage twice a turn 3 times a day isn't that great at higher levels. It doesn't even break 200 damage per round, which is the standard for strong damage.

 

[Wednesday Boy]

Warlocks even with Hellfire, overpowered? Surely you jest...



I forgot exactly how much damage it is, but even something like 14d6 damage twice a turn 3 times a day isn't that great at higher levels. It doesn't even break 200 damage per round, which is the standard for strong damage.

Sorry for being obtuse but I'm not sure what you're getting at. Are you saying Warlocks are rarely overpowered or always overpowered? (I've never played one past 2nd level and haven't been in any games past 10th level, so I don't have a good handle on comparing powerfulness at higher levels.)

Blargney and Hammerhead: I would probably stick with a straight Warlock (no Binder), so it sounds like you think I wouldn't be cheesing it up with the Hellfire Warlock. Right?

 

[Engilbrand]

Assume that 100 is OMGPOWER! Assume that the average number for a PrC to add to the base class is 20 and the average number for a base class is 60. The base class number represents where you stop in the class to take the PrC.

The Hellfire Warlock is a 30. The Warlock is a 40. It equals 70.
The Wizard is a 60. The average PrC for a Wizard is 20. It equals 80.

People are saying that, while it might be a powerful PrC, it's not even powerful enough to make the Warlock good.

Hurray for fun with numbers!

 

[Drowbane]

No. That is... HELL NO.

A hellfire-lock (Binder 1 / Warlock X / Hellfire W 3) gets blown away by a Psion or Blaster-Sorc of equal level (or even lesser level), every round for most combats. *If* you have enough combats for the Warlock's "at wills" to matter, only then is the Warlock more than just good clean fun.

Even cheesed out, the Warlock is somewhat average/underpowered.

edit: if it matters... testify: I have a gestalt Incarnate | Warlock / Hellfire Warlock who is built for blasting and as a sort of "Human Torch" wanna-be. And while he is fun as hell (hehe) to play, he doesn't take the spotlight on damage... ever. His dwarven wizard counterpart can unleash several blasting spells per round (Staff Familiar, and/or Belts of Battle, and/or celerity, and/or, Action Surge, etc) for equal or far greater damage on a pretty regular basis. I blame "Arcane Thesis" My halfling torch is most effective when he makes a target vurnerable to Dorduum's fire (using a Dragon Magic invocation)... but I'd rather let D do alittle less damage and blast away myself.

 

[Zelc]

Sorry for being obtuse but I'm not sure what you're getting at. Are you saying Warlocks are rarely overpowered or always overpowered? (I've never played one past 2nd level and haven't been in any games past 10th level, so I don't have a good handle on comparing powerfulness at higher levels.)

Rarely overpowered.

If your entire shtick is dealing damage, then you really should be dealing over 200 per round before your build can be considered a strong damage-dealing build (overkill for most games probably, but still). Warlocks have other things, but even 28d6 damage per round isn't very good.