D&D 5E Is the imbalance between classes in 5e accidental or by design?

[Maxperson]

I can't see how it's not intentional. The Playtest ended up heavily tipping toward casters and they've expressly said things like how Fireball is purposefully unbalanced 'for tradition'. Which makes me wonder if Ford should sell a Legacy car with a crank starter.

Probably because it's not all that imbalanced. As the "Are wizards really all that?" thread shows, the vast majority of the imbalance is the fault of DMs who mismanage wizard spells and the daily encounter balance.

 

[Undrave]

They created a veneer of being balanced, but could not actually make it balanced due to outcry by the player community. I think they hoped that if they didn't point out the imbalance, only those who were already knee-deep in the game would notice.

So it was intentional imbalance, but an attempt was made to conceal it. Substitute Bruno with spellcasters.

Tried to have their cake and eat it too?

 

[billd91]

The only thing that generally holds the spellcaster back is not having 100% clarity of what challenges are coming next. The ability of spellcasters to have a solution for so many in-game problems can be unbalancing, trivializing things that others might struggle to overcome. Really, how well a spellcaster can predict what upcoming challenges ahead can be a major factor in how well the group does.

While WotC's done decently in balancing effectiveness in combat at a single moment in time, when combining all three pillars spellcasters are off the chart.

I don't know that I'd entirely agree with that. Yes, wizards have some solutions to exploration issues that make challenges easy. I think that's intentionally part of the overall balance for the class. Because they're expected to be devoting some of their resources there, they aren't saving them all for combat, and vice versa. I think that's been part of the intention behind the class (and any other full caster class) all along. Back in 1e, if they were devoting slots to knock, invisibility, and spider climb, they were taking on an opportunity cost in loading up on combat spells. Various things that happened in 3e, particularly the cheapness of utility scrolls and wands, torpedoed that for the 3e family, but it's back in some form in 5e, though perhaps not quite as strict.

 

[Undrave]

Probably because it's not all that imbalanced. As the "Are wizards really all that?" thread shows, the vast majority of the imbalance is the fault of DMs who mismanage wizard spells and the daily encounter balance.

Or that a lot of people don't care or actually PREFER that the Wizard be busted... or simply don't play at the levels where it really shows?

 

[Vaalingrade]

Probably because it's not all that imbalanced. As the "Are wizards really all that?" thread shows, the vast majority of the imbalance is the fault of DMs who mismanage wizard spells and the daily encounter balance.

'mismanage wizard spells' in this case means 'don't houserule them in illogical and hostile ways some guy on the internet invented' is past is prologue.

 

[Maxperson]

Or that a lot of people don't care or actually PREFER that the Wizard be busted... or simply don't play at the levels where it really shows?

Whether they prefer it to be super imbalanced or don't care and allow it to be imbalanced, it stills falls under "It's the DM's fault."

At the super high levels the 9th level spells are where the wizard starts to pull away, and really only Wish is totally beyond the pale. They've made Wish so that if you use it to that level, there's a 50/50 chance that you can never use it again, so I've never actually seen it used that way. People don't want to lose the ability to cast it.

 

[Maxperson]

'mismanage wizard spells' in this case means 'don't houserule them in illogical and hostile ways some guy on the internet invented' is past is prologue.

No, it means "Don't be so lax with them that they can do things that they weren't designed to do."

 

[Vaalingrade]

Like Polymorph being Alter Memory. Just as it was clearly written to be.

 

[Alzrius]

At the super high levels the 9th level spells are where the wizard starts to pull away, and really only Wish is totally beyond the pale. They've made Wish so that if you use it to that level, there's a 50/50 chance that you can never use it again, so I've never actually seen it used that way. People don't want to lose the ability to cast it.

It's a 33% chance as written.

 

[LordEntrails]

Define "balance".

Because something like DPR or even a broader "combat effectiveness" only addresses 1 of the 3 pillars of RPGs. Besides, I worry more about "fun" than "balance".