D&D 5E Is the imbalance between classes in 5e accidental or by design?

[GMforPowergamers]

The humans at the table, yes. Which is what I am trying to say.

but the system flaws can be flaws you look past and we don't, or the system may not be flawed and we cause it... neither is more likely then the other

 

[GMforPowergamers]

But some people are convinced that because it's a problem in their games/white room analysis it's a problem for everyone. The scenarios given as examples always seem to make every assumption possible to increase wizard's effectiveness.

how?

 

[lingual]

They can't get perfect balance due to the nature of the game. It's not a video game where they are the DM and have objective algorithms. They gotta please newbies, veterans, optimizers, rules lawyers, different table cultures, etc.

Balance is a goal but not an attainable one.

 

[DarkCrisis]

Laughs in 4e

I mentioned 4th in a diff post. It was close but in that closeness it made every class incredible bland because they all basically did the same thing and played the same way. Trading balance for boring.

 

[CleverNickName]

but the system flaws can be flaws you look past and we don't, or the system may not be flawed and we cause it... neither is more likely then the other

Yes. Exactly.

The system is the system. It's sitting there in a book, black ink on white pages, at both Bob's table and Jim's table.
If Bob and Jim use that same system but have different experiences, it's because Bob and Jim are different. Maybe they focused on certain rules and ignored others, but it's equally likely that they were just playing a different adventure with different people.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Yes. Exactly.

The system is the system. It's sitting there in a book, black ink on white pages, at both Bob's table and Jim's table.
If Bob and Jim use that same system but have different experiences, it's because Bob and Jim are different. Maybe they focused on certain rules and ignored others, but it's equally likely that they were just playing a different adventure with different people.

so when bob asks for the system to be fixed it isn't very helpful for jim to say "I don't have that issue"

 

[Haplo781]

I mentioned 4th in a diff post. It was close but in that closeness it made every class incredible bland because they all basically did the same thing and played the same way. Trading balance for boring.

Tell me you never played 4e without telling me you never.played 4e

 

[CleverNickName]

so when bob asks for the system to be fixed it isn't very helpful for jim to say "I don't have that issue"

But that wasn't what Bob was asked, or how Bob responded.

Bob was asked "is this problem accidental or intentional?" and Bob couldn't answer because he felt the premise was false. "What problem?" he asked in response.

 

[Maxperson]

It's a 33% chance as written.

Okay. I wasn't looking Still, it's too large for most people to risk.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

Even with experienced players it happens. Whether it was the best tactic or not, one of the players in my wife's campaign decided to focus on fire based spells. Fights against anything with resistance (until he took the feat) meant they contributed little. When we hit immunity, they were just SOL. The high level wizard (we played to 20th) was basically down to cantrips outside of 1 or 2 spells.

But more to the point, if you get more than 2-3 encounters per long rest against a wide variety of opponents and tactics and in my experience is that wizards are not all that. But we already have a thread for that.

Well, it can be tricky tier one and two for sure.

For example, cited above: just go with toll of the dead. Yes…but what it that hits a strong save. Well just use one that hits dex. I mean why not just do cantrips?

They are in fact “fine” but pale in comparison to the regular attacks of fighters et al.

So it really comes down to spells to dominate. And so let’s be realistic. How many can you prepare? Because if you want to be safe you are probably preparing some defensive ones. And if you want to be a problem solver you are preparing utility. And if you want to be in the fight you prepare x. But creature 1 is vulnerable while creature 2 is resistant. Now creature 3 might be immune.

I think the wizard is versatile and good but at low mid levels they’re not too far out of balance.

When we get to tier 3 and wishes…now how are u going to balance a wish?! With enemies that make you burn them?

Unless the group wants to break the game it’s reasonable. I don’t think the designers play tested a group wanting to break the game. Because most groups don’t try to do so.