Is the Mystic (from the Dragonlance Campaign Setting) too weak?

[Aus_Snow]

I much prefer Favoured Soul as a base to work from. Sets of alternate abilities are *required* for this class, however - not all deities would grant wings, being the most obvious example.

The Mystic looks 'half done', whereas the Favoured Soul looks like it's 'nearly a great idea'. To me, anyway.

 

[MerricB]

Well yes... is he too weak? As a class?

Yes. I've seen effective favoured souls. When we tried the mystic, it failed to impress us at all. I actually think the domain weakens the class. (Domains have "dead" levels, and being forced to take a domain spell can be very frustrating when there's a good cleric spell you can't take instead).

Cheers!

 

[MerricB]

Personally, I think the mystic needs something to make up for the loss of a domain and heavy armor, and I don't think the spontaneous spellcasting is enough. As they are supposed to be drawing upon the "living web" of ambient magic in the world through their inner faith, in a sense using their beliefs as a framework for working magic, it seems to me that they'd benefit from metamagic feats or something to represent channeling that energy. They don't get turn undead, unless they take the Sun domain, so perhaps what's missing is a baseline equivalent to turn undead that fills that ability's role for the purposes of divine feats (i.e. they are channeling positive or negative energy). Perhaps they can use a turn undead attempt (renamed) to bolster their spellcasting, "buy off" metamagic costs, boost their domain powers, etc.

I like that idea. Channel Divine Energy (counts as Turn Undead for feat requirements) would be a big boost.

Cheers!

 

[Remathilis]

Mystics aren't weak when compared to a sorcerer (its cousin).

However, if you think sorcerer is weak, mystic is too.

I've seen some comparison to Spontaneous Clerics and Favored Souls. Since SC's are true variants (and not a class unto itself), I'll compare it to a Favored Soul.

BENEFITS (compared to FS)
* Slightly more spells known per level (equal to FS+1)
* Only ONE spellcasting Stat (Wisdom)
* Better Class Skills (sorry, the FS's class list is wonky. Why no Know: religion?)
* Domain Abilties (some of them are very nice).
* Able to Turn Undead (well, with the sun domain. Still, it opens up divine feats)
* Domain allows for more customization.

HINDRANCES (compared to FS)
* Weak Reflex Save
* No prof in deity weapon
* No bonus feats
* No energy immunities
* No Wings
* No DR

Basically, A mystic is for someone who wants to play a cleric with spontaneous casting. A Favored Soul is for someone who wants to play a Divine Buffer-Fighter. Most of the FS's suite lends itself to combat, a mystic is slightly more spellcasting oriented.

However, I DO allow both in my game, and I would use the mystic as my replacement cleric in my all-spontaneous caster setting. (which I may or may not get to).

 

[Nightfall]

I much prefer Favoured Soul as a base to work from. Sets of alternate abilities are *required* for this class, however - not all deities would grant wings, being the most obvious example.

The Mystic looks 'half done', whereas the Favoured Soul looks like it's 'nearly a great idea'. To me, anyway.

Yeah well I agree with the half done part...but I don't agree that FS are a "nearly great idea." Just don't see it myself.

Like I said, what is needed to make Mystic more "palatable" might be a kind of "improved Domain abilities." to make it stand out more.

 

[MerricB]

Mystics aren't weak when compared to a sorcerer (its cousin).

Huh. Only if you ignore the spell lists.

I've seen some comparison to Spontaneous Clerics and Favored Souls. Since SC's are true variants (and not a class unto itself), I'll compare it to a Favored Soul.

BENEFITS (compared to FS)
* Slightly more spells known per level (equal to FS+1)

As I recall, they have the same number of spells known as the FS; they're just forced to take the domain spell. So, a first level FS knows 3 1st level spells, the Mystic has 2+d. (I'm working from memory, but I think that's right).

Cheers!

 

[Remathilis]

Actually Merric (and I'll admit this openly) a FS has MORE SPELLS than a Mystic

Level 20 FS: 9 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 5 4 (60)
Level 20 Mystic: 9 5+d 5+d 4+d 4+d 4+d 3+d 3+d 3+d 3+d (52)

So let me change it to THIS

* Potential better spell selection: While a mystic is forced into a domain, they can gain some spells that normally FS cannot. Spells like Chain Lightning (Air), Shapechange (Animal), Wail of the Banshee (death), Disintergrate (destruction), Stoneskin, Elemental Swarm (earth), Burning Hands (fire), Identify (magic, no pearl!), Shambler (plant), Prismatic Sphere (protection), Bigby Spells (Strength), Teleport (travel), Invisibility, Time Stop (trickery), Power Words (War), Horrid Wilting (Water) and thats just the PHB domains!

* Potentially more domains: While the mystic itself is limited to one domain, prestige classes that grant bonus domains (contemplative, divine oracle) effectively grant the mystic more spells. A mystic who gains two domains now has 61 spells, three domains has 70. A mystic who takes the Soverign Speaker PrC from Faiths of Eberron gains NINE (!) domains, thats 81 additional spells; all freely castable!

 

[Crothian]

There are also planar like domains in Spell Compendium that have two spells per level of the domain. And there are other ways besides prestige classes to get extra domains.

 

[MerricB]

There are also planar like domains in Spell Compendium that have two spells per level of the domain. And there are other ways besides prestige classes to get extra domains.

Planar Domains count as two domain choices, so a Mystic can't take one.

Note that most WotC sources that grant domains only permit the taker to cast 1 spell/spell level from a domain in a day.

Cheers!

 

[MerricB]

* Potential better spell selection: While a mystic is forced into a domain, they can gain some spells that normally FS cannot. Spells like Chain Lightning (Air), Shapechange (Animal), Wail of the Banshee (death), Disintergrate (destruction), Stoneskin, Elemental Swarm (earth), Burning Hands (fire), Identify (magic, no pearl!), Shambler (plant), Prismatic Sphere (protection), Bigby Spells (Strength), Teleport (travel), Invisibility, Time Stop (trickery), Power Words (War), Horrid Wilting (Water) and thats just the PHB domains!

Yep. Getting access to these spells is nice. Domain min/maxing is essential with Mystics. It's too easy to get a domain where the spell list has many a dead level.

I'm going to have to double-check the mystic's description. (DLCS is not a book I possess, nor one I really want to, despite my enjoyment of Dragonlance).

Cheers!