Is the Mystic (from the Dragonlance Campaign Setting) too weak?

[Crothian]

It is a setting specific class, when you start putting your own setting-specific restrictions on it, like requiring their domains be selected from those of their patron deities (since not all settings require casters to have a patron deity, by the core RAW patron deities are not required), it becomes an issue, especially since the setting-specific requirements you are putting on them conflict with the setting the class was actually designed to be a part of. The Mystic is pretty easy to export from Dragonlance, but it isn't inherently a generic non-setting-specific class.

I am not placing setting specific restrictions. I am placing restricting the domains one can select. In my other post I even said that if one doesn't like the one god approach to limit the domains one can select they can just list the domains with similiar themes together. It doesn't matter how the domains get limited, just that they do so a player can't just select a lot of really powerful domains that have nothing to do with each other.

 

[Wolfwood2]

I am not placing setting specific restrictions. I am placing restricting the domains one can select. In my other post I even said that if one doesn't like the one god approach to limit the domains one can select they can just list the domains with similiar themes together. It doesn't matter how the domains get limited, just that they do so a player can't just select a lot of really powerful domains that have nothing to do with each other.

I think the basic argument is that being able to "cherry-pick" domains is a feature of the class and something players should be allowed to do.

Just like sorcerers will cherry-pick what they think to be the best/most useful spells from the arcane list, rather than feeling obliged to pick lame ones to be in theme.

 

[Crothian]

I think the basic argument is that being able to "cherry-pick" domains is a feature of the class and something players should be allowed to do.

Just like sorcerers will cherry-pick what they think to be the best/most useful spells from the arcane list, rather than feeling obliged to pick lame ones to be in theme.

As of now, the class only gets one domain so being able to cherry pick 5 domains is not a feature of the class. victorysaber asked how someone would alter it to make it more powerful and my responce was more domains but limit these domains to fit a central theme of the character.

 

[Cam Banks]

In Dragonlance, mystics have a little more appeal because of the cleric's requirement of a patron deity. The freedom to choose their domain is one of the draws. That's not nearly as attractive in settings where you don't need a patron deity or domains are unrestricted, no.

Sovereign Press has clarified and revised a number of things since the DLCS was released. Paladins aren't verboten any longer, for instance. Druids can have any god as their patron so long as they remain within one alignment step of their god and are still at least partially neutral - and they can justify the relationship. And in our recent Knightly Orders of Ansalon sourcebook we revised the Solamnic Knights so that Sword and Rose knights no longer get spells, although the Sword knight can take Clerist substitution levels.

I am very wary of adding domains. A number of our prestige classes, designed for mystics, add a domain. This makes them appealing to players of mystics. As I said, I think it's far more useful to focus on the idea of mystics as channeling divine energy of their own accord, without the need for a deity, and give them positive or negative energy as a choice. We could choose one of the divine feats from Complete Warrior or Complete Divine, make that their default use of their positive/negative channel, and have turn undead be made available as a divine feat.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Nightfall]

Cam,

Maybe you should consider perhaps an alternative such as spell-like abilities based on the Mystic's chosen domain. Just a suggestion. Nothing fancy but you know something that would make them even cooler down the line...

That or perhaps giving them DR based on say alignment domains perhaps?

 

[MerricB]

There's something of a disconnect between the domain spells and the rest of the mystic's spell list.

My observation of clerics in play puts them mostly as a melee character with some buffing spells (either personal or party), who then can draw out the healing and defensive spells when required. Clerics don't really have the wizard/sorcerer role of mainly using spells to hurt monsters.

The favoured soul improves the melee abilities of the cleric (melee armour notwithstanding; it's not a factor at high levels), and allows a buff/healer hybrid with a couple of offensive spells for those occasions when necessary.

The mystic has almost the same melee abilities as the cleric, but is made more into an offensive spellcaster like the sorcerer by the domain list; unfortunately, the mystic doesn't have the range of spells of the sorcerer to take advantage of them. (A mid- to high-level sorcerer with Empower Spell really has a lot of options).

Just my thoughts.

Cheers!

 

[Cam Banks]

Flexibility seems to be one of the mystic's hallmarks, at least in terms of choosing what sort of role the player wants in the game. Choosing Trickery gets a couple of class skills the mystic wouldn't otherwise have; choosing War adds martial training that helps considerably. If the channeling aspect of the class were linked to the role that the player wanted, you might end up with a stronger class as a result.

A bonus feat at 1st level chosen from the various divine feats, with the turn undead prerequisite waived (but the "times per day" still determined in the same fashion), might accomplish this.

Then, on top of that, having an "improved domain power" and "greater domain power" at, say, 7th and 14th levels (or some other break points) further accents the domain choice.

Another possibility I played around with was opening up the druid spell list to mystics, too, but then I designed a class that does this for them (the nomad shaman) so I'm more inclined to leave that to a PrC.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[pawsplay]

I know, that's what I placed in the limit because it is not normally there. If one doesn't like the one god thing, then I would group together domains and have them be able to select only from one of the groups to give the character a theme in their domains.

Do you make the fighters have a theme for their feats, too?

 

[Crothian]

Do you make the fighters have a theme for their feats, too?

If I was giving them additional class feats above and beyond what the rules say they get; yes.

 

[Remathilis]

How bout giving them this:

"Divine Channeling (SU): While a mystic cannot directly turn or control undead (without access to the proper domains) he can still channel mystical energy. He can channel this power a number of times equal to 3 + his cha modifer. He may use this ability to either give himself a +2 to his next saving throw (as a immediate action) Or to power divine feats as if he had the turn/rebuke undead class feature."