Is the Order of the Bow Initiate Overpowered?

[genshou]

Chiming in here: the 3.0 version was a bit overpowered. 3.5? It's fine. I don't think it's underpowered; I have one player who plays one in my halfling group, and he's certainly no wuss.

Oh, goody! Time to single someone out to corner for a definitive answer! the Jester, why do YOU think the 3.0 version is overpowered?

 

[IronWolf]

Could someone please point out *why* they think this, so we have a valid argument made on the opposite side?

My initial question was prompted by a post in another thread. I thought there may be other people who thought it was overpowered too, so I wanted to see what folks had to say. It looks like the vast majority do not think the 3.5 Order of the Bow Initiate is overpowered from the sounds of this thread. (Which I happen to agree with....)

 

[genshou]

My initial question was prompted by a post in another thread. I thought there may be other people who thought it was overpowered too, so I wanted to see what folks had to say. It looks like the vast majority do not think the 3.5 Order of the Bow Initiate is overpowered from the sounds of this thread. (Which I happen to agree with....)

I'm referring specifically to the 3.0 OotBI, which many in this thread have already attested is overpowered, but they have all failed to provide any facts to back up their claims. Thus far, it's a bunch of unfounded opinions. I'm waiting for someone to change that, so I have something to actually argue against or agree with.

 

[MerricB]

I'm referring specifically to the 3.0 OotBI, which many in this thread have already attested is overpowered, but they have all failed to provide any facts to back up their claims. Thus far, it's a bunch of unfounded opinions. I'm waiting for someone to change that, so I have something to actually argue against or agree with.

I can't see anything the 3.0 OotBI can do that can't be done by a high-level fighter/rogue. An invisible rogue already does more damage than the OotBI with a bow.

Cheers!

 

[genshou]

I can't see anything the 3.0 OotBI can do that can't be done by a high-level fighter/rogue. An invisible rogue already does more damage than the OotBI with a bow.

Cheers!

Right! Though the OotBI gets sneak attack and Superior Weapon Specialization, he can't Power Attack. That makes a big difference, especially if you use non-RAW ideas like armor as DR (and natural armor also as DR).

Banked Shot would be powerful, if it weren't a full-round action to perform.

 

[tetsujin28]

Not to mention that you're giving up 6 skill points/level, which is kind of the Scout's raison d'etre.

 

[clarkvalentine]

Can an archer combine Manyshot with the enhanced attack ability of OotBI?

 

[the Lorax]

Undead in the AoE take 1d6 damage/round. Nasty, sure, but hardly instant annihilation.

Thing is, BoED is indeed going to be overpowered if it's just used as another sourcebook. If a DM enforces the behavioral and mechanical restrictions required to be an Exalted Character, though--to say nothing of the fact that many of its most potent spells cause ability damage to the caster--it becomes a lot more balanced.

I dissagree. You do not balance a mechanical advantage with a role-playing disadvantage. I consider myself a fairly lienient DM, but here is quite of bit of material in the BoED that is over-powered to the point that I am forced to disallow it. Sheesh, I'm just thinking of the combinations of Vow of Poverty and Incarnum....

 

[Mouseferatu]

I dissagree. You do not balance a mechanical advantage with a role-playing disadvantage.

See, I know that's an operating principle of 3E, but I don't believe it always holds true.

I agree that, in most cases, the book as written shouldn't do so. But I have no problem with the DM doing so, so long as he knows his players aren't going to abuse the system, and so long as he is willing to enforce said RP disadvantages.

BoED was written on the understanding that the DM would be enforcing said restrictions. Whether or not it should have been is a matter for a different thread, but the fact is that it was. I've seen the material in play. I've seen it played brokenly, because the DM wasn't enforcing the restrictions, and I've seen it played well, because a different DM was.

 

[Crothian]

I dissagree. You do not balance a mechanical advantage with a role-playing disadvantage. I consider myself a fairly lienient DM, but here is quite of bit of material in the BoED that is over-powered to the point that I am forced to disallow it. Sheesh, I'm just thinking of the combinations of Vow of Poverty and Incarnum....

Why not? A lot of people say this but no one says why. Are players ignoreing the role playing aspects of such things and basically cheat to make it unbalanced? Are the DMs not in control of their games to make sure that these role playing parts are not done?