Is The Web Spell Broken?

Caliban said:
That is the assumption that I disagree with. I think you are reading to much into the spell at this point, and it doesn't match with what I've seen of burning webs in real life.

This is irrelevant.

In real life, webs melt when heated. They do not burn. These webs burn.

And the spell explicitly states that these webs burn.

Caliban said:
Webs are not substantial enough to catch on fire and keep burning on their own. You have to keep applying fire for it to continue burning.

The spell does not say that. You are assuming that.

Caliban said:
Also, the rules generally spell out when something can catch fire and continue burning. Since the web spell doesn't do this, it is most likely not the way it works.

This might possibly be due to the fact that they burn so quickly. They do not "continue burning" because they burn away in a round. And then the next section burns away in a round.

Caliban said:
I've certainly never seen it ruled this way.

Every DM I have played with from 3E on has played it this way. In fact, I think we played it this way in 1E and 2E as well, but I'd have to go back and re-read the Web spell in those versions to find out.

Caliban said:
According to you guys, the Web spell is automatically nullified in one to two rounds by a single torch. I really don't think so.

This is incorrect.

It burns 5 feet in all directions per round. It has a 20 foot radius, so it would take 8 rounds to completely burn away.

Granted, you could get it to burn away in less than 8 rounds (say, 3 or 4) on some webs if they are only anchored from wall to wall and not floor to ceiling and you burn away the anchor points on one side and the rest of the web collapses.

ThirdWizard said:
Does it spread diagonally or only vertically and horizontally?

It should spread in all directions, but I can see how a given DM might rule only horizontally and vertically for simplicity.

"any fire"

And, we have rules on how diagonal distances are measured.
 

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Hypersmurf said:
Wait... isn't that what 'set alight' means?

In the context that the web spell is referring to? I don't believe so.

I believe it is only talking about setting enough of the webs on fire to burn 5' of them.



A very thin strand that needs a DC 20 Strength check? They're described as 'far larger' than spiderwebs. And flammable. And can be 'set alight'.

-Hyp.

Given the way the spell is worded, and the way spells in general work in D&D, I believe those phrases mean:

Far larger than spider webs = fills a 20 foot radius, webs are thicker than normal spider webs, and there are many more of them. So it would burn more than a normal web would. 5 square feet in six seconds is plenty more than a normal web.

Flammable = can be burned

Set alight = will burn a 5' square before burning out.

As I said, I think that if any source of fire is able to burn out the entire web with a single application, the spell would say this in the section on burning the webs. Instead, the spell specifically states that any fire burns away one 5' square in one round. It does not state that it continues burning. So I have to believe that is not how it works.
 
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I think the designers didn't intend in 3e that fire would spread through the Web. This is one reason why it's overpowered. BTW ice melts, webs burn. 'Melt' means turn solid to liquid.
 

Actually, I think the spell is just poorly worded regardless of which interpretation the designers intended.

"The strands of a web spell are flammable. A magic flaming sword can slash them away as easily as a hand brushes away cobwebs. Any fire can set the webs alight and burn away 5 square feet in 1 round. All creatures within flaming webs take 2d4 points of fire damage from the flames."

"5 square feet" is equivalent to a section 1 foot wide and 5 feet long.

They should have said a "5 foot square" instead (this happens a lot in the rules).

Ditto for "flammable". There is only a vague reference to how flammable.


But for interpretation purposes, I think the fact that they actually do damage to creatures inside of them indicate that a flaming web is pretty much a blazing fire.

This is not some slight smoldering embers, this is a fire. And if it really is flammable enough and hot enough to do damage to characters, it is flammable enough and hot enough so that it does not simply go out. IMO.

For example, a pint of burning oil (something which is also flammable in the game) does 1D3 points of damage for 2 rounds in a 5 foot square and then goes out. Web burns twice as fast as this and does more damage.

Alchemist Fire, on the other hand, does 1D6 per round for 2 rounds. So, a burning web is somewhere between burning oil and alchemist fire. It sounds to me that it is burning pretty significantly and is flammable enough to do real damage, even to itself.

I think the argument that it does not state that it continues to burn is as ineffective as an argument that it does not state that it goes out. It states neither of these opposite viewpoints, so we have to determine what it does based on what it does say.

It says that "any fire can set the webs alight", the 5 foot section information merely states how fast that occurs.

If the webs are "alight", they are "alight". And like any flammable material, the assumption should be that they stay alight until they either extinguish their fuel, or they are put out.

These webs are flammable. To assume that they are only flammable while fire is applied to them and then only in that location is not specifically supported by the wording of the spell (or by the definition of the word flammable, trees are flammable, if a fire starts in the woods, it typically will not stop until it runs out of fuel or is prevented from continuing in some way).


Also, webs that continue to burn away are more balanced than webs that do not.

S'mon said:
BTW ice melts, webs burn. 'Melt' means turn solid to liquid.

Btw, before you correct me, you should do some research. Webs are a fiber. Many fibers, especially manufactured fibers, both burn and melt when exposed to flame. Some real world fibers like spider webs and silk have those same characteristics. Wax is another example of a material that both burns and melts (and also does more melting than burning). If you can find a source that contradicts this, please post it.
 


KarinsDad said:
Also, webs that continue to burn away are more balanced than webs that do not.

I agree with this 100%. The web spell as (it appears to be) written is horribly overpowered, making it inflammable would help a lot.
 

Lasher Dragon said:
Your post got me thinking... I don't know if we have been using a variant rule or what, but in our games magical healing starts at 0 HP. So, if you are at -7 and someone casts a cure minor, it puts you at 1. I thought it was kinda weird myself, because we used to always play that you had to "dig your way out" of the negatives. So, are we using some weird variant, or did someone misread something?

I think it's how things were done in 1st Ed, but I don't have my books handy, and it's been a long time since then. I know it's how we used to handle it back then, but I was in high school, and probably did a lot of stuff the wrong way....

Telas
 

S'mon said:
I agree with this 100%. The web spell as (it appears to be) written is horribly overpowered, making it inflammable would help a lot.
You seem to be contradicting yourself. You agree with something, but say making it the opposite would help?
Personally, I would think that the flames would spread.
 



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