Is there a need for a simplified D&D?

[MerricB]

For combat, how about this option to replace the battle mat without getting rid of the importance of movement.

Move checks.

And how does the Fireball spell work?

Cheers!

 

[Krieg]

But yes, I'd love to see a true Basic D&D, not to replace 3.5, but simply as another option.

...but only if Erol Otus does the artwork!

BTW Let us know if this project goes anywhere, I for one would definitely be interested in taking a look at it someday.

 

[Steel_Wind]

Yanno, I don't know that we really do.

I suppose that you could simply add a page or four for beginning groups. "For the first few sessions - don't use any feats at all.

Add another page or three: starting list of skills for basis characters dependent on class, a la NWN. Here is what you get. "Use these for now"

Poof.

Would that REALLY be so bad - if it was for the first 4 sessions?

It's essentially 1st edition, without the bells and whistles and more sensible and intuitive mechanics..

Was first edition that bad that we needed an introductory game? There seemed to be a belief there was - but - I am not convinced. I never was.

It's not about rules - its about marketing.

What we are really talking about is not so much Rules Lite as "cheapen the barriers to entry".

That's not so much about dumbing down the rules as is it is making them cheaper to print and distribute. That's a very different point.

There are all KINDS of things you can do to make that easier instead of making the Blue Box and chits again.

 

[Dark Jezter]

I don't think D&D 3e is too complicated. While it does have more rules than previous editions, the rules are more internally consistant and intuitive, so I actually end up referencing the books less during sessions than I did with 1e or 2e.

Still, the 3.5 PHB contains over 300 pages worth of rules and game information. To somebody who has never played an RPG before, that can be quite intimidating. I've got a couple of friends who have shown interest in D&D, but they don't want to spend a lot of time learning all the rules. The new D&D Basic set could be a nice way to ease them into the game slowly before we start playing with all the rules.

 

[Krieg]

I don't think it is necessarily a matter of "too complicated" or "bringing in new gamers" so much as it is providing a slimmed down set of rules for those who are so inclined.

A D20 Lite would appeal to a segment of gamers that feel the current variants don't fit their needs.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

This has proably already been said but:
Ignore any new supplements and material and just stick to the core rules, all those PRCs and new feats are what make the game so darn confusing sometimes. Just stick to the core rules and you'll be fine.

 

[RangerWickett]

Re: Move checks.

And how does the Fireball spell work?

Cheers!

Well, fireball's probably the easiest spell you could have mentioned, because it's size is about right to fill a whole melee area. You could just have it work so it hits everyone in the area.

Perhaps at the risk of adding more complexity, you could give every area-of-effect spell a number of people it can affect. Some spells will just hit the people you target, without worrying about realism. (Think of Final Fantasy, or any of a dozen MMORPGs, where you always happen to get attacked by foes who hover a safe distance away). Other spells will require everyone in the area to make a save, and the X people who roll lowest are hit.

Anyway, large area-of-effect spells should be higher level things, so they won't complicate low-level play.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Or you can just keep fireball having a radius of X-feet. It worked in Basic D&D and AD&D, so it's not like measurements of that sort are only useful on a battlemap.

 

[Akrasia]

I don't think it is necessarily a matter of "too complicated" or "bringing in new gamers" so much as it is providing a slimmed down set of rules for those who are so inclined.

A D20 Lite would appeal to a segment of gamers that feel the current variants don't fit their needs.

Exactly. Some people don't see the need for full-blown 3.x DnD (even just using the 900+ pages of "core" rules), and would prefer a "rules lite" version of the game that had a simplified combat and magic system, a different approach to feats, skills, etc. Such a system would not just be easier to pick up, it would be easier to prep on a regular basis (especially important for DMs with full-time jobs, and for whom writing up stat blocks, etc. is a painful and tedious chore), and maintain over time, at least for groups that only met 1-2 times every month (because combat would be much faster in a lite system, you could get through more adventures in less time).

The label "3rd edition" is misleading. It fails to recognize that there was, throughout the 1980s and early 1990s, a complete and surprisingly coherent version of Dungeons and Dragons that was "rules lite" in comparison to ADnD. Unsurprisingly, this game was called "Dungeons and Dragons"! Many people played excellent campaigns, from 1st level to as high as 36th level, using this system. It was also surprisingly flexible -- it could survive house-rules and ad-hoc rulings more easily than the more complex "Advanced" system.

Something like the old basic/expert/Rules Cylcopedia DnD is what d20 needs IMO. (And perhaps Castles and Crusades will provide this -- we'll see.)

 

[Ourph]

This has proably already been said but:
Ignore any new supplements and material and just stick to the core rules, all those PRCs and new feats are what make the game so darn confusing sometimes. Just stick to the core rules and you'll be fine.

I completely disagree. Consider...

Moldvay Basic D&D (64 pgs) + Cook Expert D&D (64 pgs) = 128 pgs
1e PHB (127 pgs) + DMG (238 pgs) + MM (110 pgs) = 475 pgs
The 3.5 PHB (317 pgs) + DMG (320 pgs) + MM (319 pgs) = 956 pgs

The core is a LOT of stuff. That's a big barrier to entry for a complete newbie to RPGs. It's also not going to appeal to some gamers who thought the 475 pages of AD&D was "too much" and opted for a simpler, quicker system.

Let's just put it this way. When I got the Moldvay Basic set for Christmas in 1981, I opened my present on Christmas Eve and was playing a game with my cousins on Christmas day. When I bought my 3e PHB in 2000 it took me 5-6 days to read and understand the rules to the point where I was comfortable enough with them to feel I could actually play the game. The current D&D rules are REALLY missing out on the "buy it Friday night, play it Saturday afternoon" crowd IMO.