Is there a non-magic paladin or a paladin with Chr based spells?

[DM-Rocco]

I am looking for a varient paladin that either doesn't have spells or uses Chr for spell use rather than Wis.

I know that the Complete warrior (I think it was warrior) has a varient on the paladin that doesn't use spells, but I don't really like that one.

Also, a PrC that is disigned for paladins but doesn't use Wis for spells or abilities would work too if you could qualify for it by level 4 or 5.

Any WOTC book or Dragon magazine is okay.

Basically looking for the goodies like smite, Aura of courage, divine grace, divine health and turn undead but I don't want the spells that are Wis based.

 

[Bagpuss]

What aspect of the paladin are you particularly interested in?

 

[DM-Rocco]

What aspect of the paladin are you particularly interested in?

Basically looking for the goodies like smite, Aura of courage, divine grace, divine health and turn undead but I don't want the spells that are Wis based.

 

[Kat']

There's a variant class in Complete Champion that grants you bonus feats instead of spellcasting. But tell me, what's the problem with the paladin's spellcasting? The spell list is great and nearly no spell allows a saving throw, making it pointless to have a Wisdom higher than 14 (which you can get with a Periapt of Wisdom, by the way) except for bonus spells. Hey, it rocks!

 

[Creamsteak]

Bonus spells per day are fairly useful to the paladin so having higher than a 14 isn't totally pointless. I'd target 16 by 12th level and 18 by 16th level.

 

[DM-Rocco]

There's a variant class in Complete Champion that grants you bonus feats instead of spellcasting. But tell me, what's the problem with the paladin's spellcasting? The spell list is great and nearly no spell allows a saving throw, making it pointless to have a Wisdom higher than 14 (which you can get with a Periapt of Wisdom, by the way) except for bonus spells. Hey, it rocks!

It is not that I hate the spells, I want the spells, I just don't want the spells based on Wis.

I am thinking of starting a new game with a few friends and they are playing gestalt characters with a 30 point buy. I can come up with a really kick ass paladin/favored soul if I don't use Wis, the stats would be

Str 14 (6 points)
Con 14 (6 points)
Dex 14 (6 points)
Int 10 (2 points)
Wis 08 (0 points)
Chr 16 (10 points)

With Steadfast Determination to make your Will save basically the same as your Fort the only reason to have any Wisdom if for the Paladin spells, thus why I am looking to spelless Paladins or Paladins that make use of Chr instead. Sure it is cheesy, but it is hard to make a good Paladin. They really need a little of everything.

 

[Thurbane]

Favored Soul going into the Holy Liberator PrC isn't bad (both in CD), but doesn't get undead turning.

...if there is some way for a Favored Soul to get undead turning ability, you could also consider going into the Prestige Paladin class in UA.

 

[DM-Rocco]

Favored Soul going into the Holy Liberator PrC isn't bad (both in CD), but doesn't get undead turning.

...if there is some way for a Favored Soul to get undead turning ability, you could also consider going into the Prestige Paladin class in UA.

I saw that too. I like the idea of playing a paladin, but in order to play a Prestige paladin you can't take paladin levels, so what do I do with myself for those first 5 levels?

I could redo the stats to something like this:

Str 14 (6 points)
Con 14 (6 points)
Dex 12 (4 points)
Int 10 (2 points)
Wis 14 (6 points)
Chr 14 (6 points)

but is really defeats my original idea and weakens the favored soul spells. I could do this:

Str 12 (4 points)
Con 14 (6 points)
Dex 10 (2 points)
Int 10 (2 points)
Wis 14 (6 points)
Chr 16 (10 points)

but this is bordering on very weak as far as Str goes. Good luck wearing plate armor. Although, hard to wear plate with a 14 Str.

It will be a world of undead and demons so any other builds for destroying undead and demons would be cool, but I like the idea of the paladin in that world. My other idea was for a cleric of Pelor with the glory and sun domain and some other class. This of course would require different scores, a higher wisdom and a less effective Chr, so paladin would not be as effective.

Maybe a Druid/Cleric? But then I would have to find a different druid class, I don't think the standard one would work well.

 

[s-dub]

It will be a world of undead and demons so any other builds for destroying undead and demons would be cool, but I like the idea of the paladin in that world. My other idea was for a cleric of Pelor with the glory and sun domain and some other class. This of course would require different scores, a higher wisdom and a less effective Chr, so paladin would not be as effective.

Maybe a Druid/Cleric? But then I would have to find a different druid class, I don't think the standard one would work well.

Try looking at the Hunter of the Dead from Complete Divine, the Fist of Raziel from the Book of Exalted Deeds, and the Knight of the Chalice from Complete Warrior. All of these are nice to multiclass into.

I know that the FoR gets full spellcasting progression.

 

[Aus_Snow]

The Paladin variant from Complete Champion would be perfect, IMO. It works great.

Dragon magazine #349 (p. 93) offers a bunch of fiendslaying options for Paladins, some of which are quite cool (again, IMO.)

And your first bunch of stats should be fine there. Though personally, I might go for Dex 12 and Str 15, if not more so.


edit --- 349, not 359.