D&D 4E Is there any D&D 4th computer game?

[keterys]

I will say - one of the most powerful tools available to someone developing a D&D CRPG?

Skipping stuff.

Don't have a really good way to deal with a ton of Immediate powers, or they're dragging the game down? Skip 'em. Now OAs and such can just trigger, unless you're holding down a key not to, or somesuch.

Don't have a really good way to deal with monsters who mark players, then have special powers to trigger if that mark isn't respected? Skip those. Plenty of other monsters.

Don't have a really good way to deal with a power that slides all allies in a big area? Hey, skip those. There's only a couple of them anyways.

There are 12,000 D&D game elements at this point, and rapidly growing. The CRPG only needs a couple thousand of those, at most. And it'll still be D&D. Whether turn-based or real-time.

 

[KarinsDad]

So, the game could be adapted to real time, like an MMO or a game like Mass Effect or Oblivion. The complex targeting is still a challenge there, but since the game is already clearly adapted, I'm sure you could get away with having the game pick optimal secondary targets for you in many circumstances.

If the game is not turn based, it becomes a totally different game system.

The reason is durations. 4E has extremely limited durations for nearly everything. Most effects last until the start of the PCs next turn or the end of the PCs next turn or until a save is made (which happens frequently).

In a non-turn computer game, if the designers kept these rules, the game would be a flop.

Player: "What the? I just put up that defense and it's already gone."

So many mechanics would need to be change in a non-turned based game that it wouldn't be even close to 4E anymore.


As an example, take DDO. One rushes up to a foe and swings and swings and swings and the foe finally falls. Most of the attacks that the foe does in return are very minor damage such as 1 point. The PC usually has to be surrounded or attacked from behind in order to take 6 or more points of damage at low level.

Then, the Cleric has spell points instead of spells per day, etc. There are then Action Points (totally different than 3E or 4E action points) which can be spent at a trainer for enhancements.

It's 3.5 DND-like and successful commercially, but mechanics-wise it's not very close to 3.5 except for some aspects of character creation.


Now one thing they might be able to get away with is "slow turn based". In other words, the player picks the power to use and the targets a bit ahead of time and the computer has the PCs and NPCs swing a lot and miss (i.e. they are not real attacks) and then on the PC's "turn", that power is used.

This would make it look non-turn based but it is really turn based for melee type PCs, but it might be a bit more problematic for ranged type PCs.

 

[keterys]

Duration tweaking is definitely something that will have to happen. If a 'turn' is 6 seconds, then you can make a duration anywhere from 6 to 12 seconds and that's probably fine. A lot of computer games only give you temporary defensive or attack buffs for a few seconds, or against the next attack.

 

[Doctor Futurity]

As a fan of Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2 as well as a frequent DDO gamer, I think it's pretty evident that the conceptual ideas behind the system can be translated fairly easily. DDO, for example, is an extrapolation of the 3.5 ruleset, layered on to a system that honors the D20 mechanics while also expanding their versatility in to the MMORPG arena in real-time, and it's quite fun, with loads of twitchy gameplay. I don't see any reason a 4E CRPG wouldn't be able to do the same, and with its more carefully defined powers I would think that game developers for the CRPG arena would be able to do very much the same thing, and extrapolate the intent of the pnp ruleset in to the digital arena quite nicely.

At this point though, I'd just be happy if DDO introduced shifters, changelings, tieflings and dragonborn as new races....maybe a warlock class...

The only issue that really surprises me anymore with regards to D&D licensing for CRPGs is that they didn't have anything lined up before 4E was even released (which iirc 3.0 had several games coming out the gates for the PC within a year or two of its debut).

 

[renau1g]

Maybe it's because a lot of developers consider the PC a dying gaming system as much of teh NPD sales figures trend downwards, but they likely fail to take into account (in those #'s) the switch from physical sales at say Best BUy to digital distribution such as via Steam.

 

[questing gm]

Anyone ever play the original Final Fantasy Tactics on Playstation? That is -perfect- for a 4e CRPG. You can have a battlegrid, turn-based combat, and squad-based tactics in a video game. It's been done plenty of times before.

That's the way how I envision 4E combat, in fact I would say that 4E isn't more like MMORPGs than this genre of turn-based JRPGs.

 

[keterys]

The only issue that really surprises me anymore with regards to D&D licensing for CRPGs is that they didn't have anything lined up before 4E was even released (which iirc 3.0 had several games coming out the gates for the PC within a year or two of its debut).

It's less surprising when you look at the lawsuits (plural, Turbine and WotC instigated) against Atari for mishandling of the D&D license.

 

[Gruns]

A turn in DDO.

Duration tweaking is definitely something that will have to happen. If a 'turn' is 6 seconds, then you can make a duration anywhere from 6 to 12 seconds and that's probably fine. A lot of computer games only give you temporary defensive or attack buffs for a few seconds, or against the next attack.

When DDO first came out, a "turn" was still 6 seconds. The powers that be quickly discovered that this just wasn't working, as this was just too long when combined with real life clicking. For example, any creature that failed a Hold Person save was 99.9% certain to die in those 6 seconds. They quickly changed the turn to 2 seconds early on in the game's life.

Another interesting change was the way the game deals with increased BAB with multiple attacks per round at higher levels. In the pen and paper version, for example, your lvl 11 Fighter may get 3 attacks at +11 to hit, +6 and +1. People discovered a way to 'break the chain' so to speak, and make every attack the first attack, and thus get the +11 to hit. The developer's eventually simply reversed the order of the bonuses. Now the first attack is at +1, the next +6 and the final attack in the chain is at +11. (There's also an extra attack in the online game, but that's beside the point).

And speaking of points, I don't remember what mine was when I decided to write this reply. Just some interesting game lore, I suppose.
Later all!
Gruns

 

[AllisterH]

Western RPGs are becoming progressively more shooter to access a broader base and secure extra funding. Going back on that progression is not something I see Atari or any Western developer being overly comftorable with enough to secure significant finances.

.

Indeed.

There are many a discussion on videogame forums as to whether Mass Effect2 is a RPG with shooter elements or a SHOOTER with RPG elements.

I tend to side with the latter as I find that ME2 combat is more dependant on your reflexes than on the build of the characters.

 

[RangerWickett]

I once spent a summer brainstorming a D&D-esque game for PS2, with the help of some friends. One of the versions I liked best went like this:

3rd Person Perspective, Real Time. You're usually looking slightly down from slightly behind your character, and you play in real time. Sort of like God of War or Fable.

Still, you move around with the left analog, and use the right analog to change the camera angle. Out of combat the camera will reset to a pre-programmed point of view if you don't move the right analog for a few seconds. In combat it will look where you tell it to, though it tends to follow the enemy you're attacking. If you press in the right analog, the camera would look wherever the game thinks you should be looking.

Multiple Classes with Various Action Sets. Say you're a typical fighter-esque guy. You'd have one basic set of actions with the normal Triangle, Square, Circle, and X buttons. Probably something like attack, block, jump, and lock-on.

(It would lock onto a target, either whoever's in the center of your screen, or the guy you just attacked. You could press the directional keypad to cycle through different targets on screen.)

Then you'd also have four 'Action Sets,' keyed to the R1, R2, L1, and L2 buttons. If you press one of those buttons, it would change what the main four buttons (triangle, square, etc.) do.

Like maybe R1 would be "Power Attacks." R1+Triangle could be a knockback hit. R1+Square could be cleave. R1+Circle could be whirlwind attack. And R1+X could be a reckless charge. Or maybe there'd be combos where if you hold R1 and hit X, X, Square, Circle, you pull off some cool attack.

R2 might be "Grappling," to let you grab people, or climb huge monsters. L1 might be "Dueling" where moves would combine parries with ripostes, or have built-in sidesteps. And L2 might be "Utility," where you could set each of the main buttons to a different disposable item like a healing potion, or a weapon swap.

As you gain levels you’d get access to new Action Sets, but you’d have to choose from 4 at any given time, both to keep the game from getting too complicated, and to keep you from having an overpowering number of attacks. (If the latter ends up not being an issue, maybe pressing all four trigger buttons (R1, R2, L1, L2) would toggle you to a second set of Action Sets.)

Spellcasters would work similarly. Maybe R1 is evocations. R1+circle, circle, x could be a fireball (after casting you’d have to use the analog sticks to aim where to target), R1+triangle, triangle, triangle could be a lightning bolt, and R1+x,x,x could be a barrage of magic missiles. R2 could be defensive spells. L1 might be summon spells. And you’d have a finite amount of mana.

Every class would start with 4 pre-chosen Action Sets, and would have easier or harder access to other sets, but it would be possible to learn any combination of actions. Maybe once you get a total of 8 sets, you’d gain the ability to toggle between one batch and the other. By the time you’re “epic level,” you’d have tons of combat options, some geared for one-on-one fights, others for big melees.

I would prefer that style of gameplay much more than turn-based, and it would allow online play, which is the big draw these days.