Is this what you went through with 3rd Edition?

[Vempyre]

I've gotten used to that over the years. That's why I don't get attached to ppl on forums (any forums) anymore.

But back to pre-3E days, yea, in general on the net it felt pretty much like it does now, except on Eric's forums, hehe.

And though the OGL will make 3.x last a while longer than 2e ever did after 3e, I don't think it will be eternal, at least commercially. Games need to move on after a while, because the ppl playing them needs them to.

 

[Stormtower]

Let's just say I'm a bit more demanding about what I expect out of D&D.

Though I agree with Psion's sentiment (and it reflects my preferred playstyle, too), I believe 4E will deliver on making the popular "kick in the door" dungeoneering style of D&D more accessible and faster to play.

 

[EricNoah]

And I would be quite surprised if, eventually, there weren't 3rd party options for 4E to take it in the direction Psion's talking about. The best rules/mechanics from 4E and the best fluff/inherent assumptions from any earlier edition of the game.

 

[wedgeski]

I remember a bit of dissent but I didn't really go looking for it.

I *do* know that the two groups I had then both swore blind they were happy with vanilla 2ed (which was what we played at the time), but all of them switched to new 3ed campaigns within six months. Some of those guys now swear blind that they're happy with 3.5 and won't be switching to 4ed. Some kids just never learn.

Also don't forget that the RPG environment is much different now: people's loyalties are divided between several different companies/authors, the shadow of 'corporate' WotC weighs heavily on some of the more extreme fans, and massive roleplaying forums like ENW give everyone on both sides a chance to vent their feelings in ways that weren't really mainstream in 2000.

I do genuinely feel that only the same proportion of people who didn't switch to 3ed will not switch to 4ed, it's just that now they're much louder than they used to be. And I don't mean that as a slight, it's just the way it is.

 

[glass]

Slightly OT, but...

It's only through the excellent job the moderators do here that these boards remain as civil and mature as they have.

QFMFT!


glass.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

So, do you think that this furor over 4th Edition is going to turn out to be much the same sort of panic at change and then coming to like the new edition?

I saw nothing like what you saw on the transition to 3E. TSR had gone bankrupt. TSR. The 800-lb gorilla of the gaming industry. The pioneer of the entire hobby. The idea that any company would pick up the remains of D&D and continue supporting it was a good thing. Everybody I knew was more relieved that D&D would continue than anxious about how it would change. And late 2E was so horribly broken with poorly-conceived splatbooks that it was best to let the new owners wipe the slate clean and start anew.

In fact, I was happier that a new team was taking over, I was that disappointed with the late 2E material. Had TSR introduced 3E, with the same design team that was behind the late 2E books that I disliked, I wouldn't have gone for 3E.

The team behind 4E has been pretty clear about their design philosophies and what they think makes a game more fun. Between their statements and their late 3.5 material, they've let me know that 4E isn't the game for me.

 

[Plane Sailing]

There is some interesting blogging that was going on in 2000 recorded here, which gives an interesting take from one person about the arrival of 3e.

http://www.mazrim.com/jstarlight/ThirdED.html

Cheers

 

[IanB]

There is some interesting blogging that was going on in 2000 recorded here, which gives an interesting take from one person about the arrival of 3e.

http://www.mazrim.com/jstarlight/ThirdED.html

Cheers

I find the idea that 3E was much too combat focused and that it would kill roleplaying (paraphrased) to be particularly telling and relevant to the current discussions.

 

[Kzach]

I went to quote a few people and then after reading thoroughly through their quotes, realised they'd said everything I want to say. So I'll just say I agree with Brother MacLaren, Eric Noah & Ydars. They summed up my feelings the best.

D&D to me has also been defined by common elements that have been part of the ruleset and (growing) metasetting since 1e and before. Dryads as beautiful forest spirits instead of treants with bewbs, evil chromatic and good metallic dragons, lawful good paladins, Gnomes, bards, the planes, all those things are definitive of D&D to me, and did not "come from me", and are being unceremoniously chucked aside for the first round of 4e books.

The metasetting is irrelevant to a person's game because everything about it is optional.

There is nothing in 4e stopping you from having dryads as beautiful forest spirits, evil chromatic dragons, good metallic dragons, lawful good paladins, gnomes, bards, the planes using the Great Wheel cosmology or anything else that isn't hard-wired into the rules system.

If you were saying that Vancian magic was your sunlight, flowers and joy, then maybe you'd have a point since that is a hard-wired rules change in 4e which does affect the flavour of a person's game. Even then, though, it has been stated that building your own character classes or even making a classless system is entirely possible with the infrastructure of the new rules. So... make a Vancian-style class.

Point is, fluff doesn't dictate your style of play.

 

[TrainedMunkee]

From my recollection, there was pretty much just as much negative grognardism/positive fanboyisms back at the 3e launch are there is now, if not more so. I do think people forget just how much crap/flamewars were being thrown around back then. It certainly wasn't 90:10 pro-con or anywhere near, IMO. Heck, I think fights about the new initiative system alone took up incredible amounts of net space. And then there was the whole "Evil WotC, taking over from good ol' TSR" stuff, the "what is with this spiky armor and dungeonpunk art!" and the "they're just trying to turn this into Magic: the Gathering RPG!" Tons of accusations of power gaming and pandering to the younger generation. I was definitely the only one in my gaming group who wasn't vehemently opposed to 3e as it came out. Once all the furore died down, the group saw that it wasn't the end of D&D and that many of the problems proposed worked out fine in play.

The spiky armor and dungeonpunk argument was one of my favorites. I didn't post here. I was over at TSR or was it WoTC or both? Pretty much the same "fears", just replace 4e with 3e. The evil WoTC fears were great also. Adkinson spent a lot of time on the boards back then. Now it's evil Hasbro or was then also. It was the same in that it was the vocal minority of haters that received the bandwidth. They claimed that they weren't a minority also. 90% of them converted to 3e and loved it. It will be the same this time. WoTC has the money and resources to make a good game.