D&D 5E (2014) Is trafficking in soul coins ostensibly evil?

[R_J_K75]

No, it's confirmed

Confirmed by who? Stop talking in absolutes and stop telling me I'm wrong

 

[Stormonu]

I would think the Lawful Good would be working "within the system" to eliminate the practice. Given that "the system" is overtly evil, though, I think most Lawful Good folks would be trying to eliminate it, one way or another.

(Trying to create a democracy in Hell that would work for the benefit of all seems optimistic, even for the most optimistic of Lawful Good folks, like Carrot from Discworld.)

The Lawful Good could see it being a just punishment for certain individuals (not all individuals, but an appropriate punishment for certain crimes/individuals), or might be running an underground railroad to get the slaves freed or might be heading up the opposition to have the system banished (if they're the old testament sort, they might even be a bit annoyed that the individual is "getting off easy"). More than likely though, they wouldn't be someone to stand by the wayside, they'd be actively doing something about it one way or another. Also the big difference with the Chaotic Good and the Neutral Good would be likely would be they have a higher purpose, they have a plan and they have a code or stance about how they would be acting. Both the Chaotic Good and the Neutral Good would be outraged they're slaves and be jumping at the chance to just bust whomever they could free loose as soon as they could. The Lawful Good likely be working towards a plan that would affect all the slaves and change the mindset of the slavers as well.

 

[Necropolitan]

Confirmed by who? Stop talking in absolutes and stop telling me I'm wrong

You ARE factually wrong.

The entries for Hellfire weapons and Hellfire Engines in Descent Into Avernus and Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes state that they damn the souls of those slain by them to Hell and send them to be turned into Lemures.

It's explicitly spelled out in the Hellfire Engine entry that the Devils do so to both deprive their enemies of forces while replenishing their own.

 

[jasper]

I am playing a hell-focused high level campaign and most of the party is Good aligned (mostly Lawful Good in fact).

I am a Lawful Neutral character and I am the one using soul coins the most (essentially the treasurer). While using soul coins does have an immoral feel to it, I don't know that it is out of character for such an alignment. I mean the souls are dammed either because they were bad people or because they made a deal with a Devil. From a Lawful Neutral point of view isn't this what they deserve?

Thoughts?

You have moved toward evil. You are now a devil dealing with second hand souls. Welcome to EVIL side. We STeAL chocOlate ChIP cookies.

 

[Joshua Randall]

Violates Kant’s categorical imperative, quite literally treating people as a means to an end (the coin) rather than an end in themselves. Absolutely evil.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Violates Kant’s categorical imperative, quite literally treating people as a means to an end (the coin) rather than an end in themselves. Absolutely evil.

Kant argue with that.

 

[Vaalingrade]

So... how sure are we that the coins absolutely did something worse than contributing to the torment of souls because they really, really disapproved of something they assumed the folks in the coins did?

 

[Chaltab]

Hmm. Yes, dealing in soul coins is distasteful and likely evil. But that brings up the question: is the construction of an afterlife where evil souls are condemned to eternal* torture not then inherently evil? I mean, is being forged into a coin any worse than what's already happening to them in Hell?

* For certain values of eternal.

I mean they lore suggests that when used in an infernal machine the soul is destroyed. By this logic using a soul coin might be seen as a neutral or even good act from a pragmatic POV. A good or neutral soul doesn't deserve eternal torment and releasing an evil soul likely means it just ends up as a manes or lemure,or the exalted of some evil deity.

 

[R_J_K75]

No, it's confirmed Devils will happily take other souls.

Hellfire weapons and Hellfire Engines send the souls of those they slay to Hell to be made into Lemures.

MTF pg. 165 says:
Soul Trapping.
Mortal creatures slain by hellfire engines are doomed to join the infernal legions in mere hours unless powerful magic-wielders intervene on their behalf.

Pg 225 of BGitA says:
A creature might have been imprisoned as a result of defaulting on a deal, while another might be the victim of a night hag's curse.

Pg 226 of BGitA says:
Hellish Currency.
Soul coins are created by Mammon and his greater devils on Minauros, the third layer of the Nine Hells, in a vast chamber where the captured souls of evil mortals are bound into the coins.

Here's is what I originally said:
"I would say that the Nine Hells is LE. Its lawful so are it denizens for the most part, So I think that they would be selective in the souls they corrupt and usurp."

I will admit technically I think we are both right. The OP is asking about soul coins which appear in a FR adventure, they didn't say whether they are playing in a Forgotten Realms campaign or playing BGitA, but it's possible. If we put this into a FR context here's my opinion. Kelemvor (LN) Lord of the Dead, Judge of the Damned, judges dead souls where one of two things happen, they either travel to plane of the god they worshiped in life or they are deemed faithless if they worshiped no god and wander the Fugue Plane. Hellfire engines can destroy any mortal whose soul is then forced into the ranks of the Devils armies. I don't see a whole lot of mortals going to the Nine Hells let alone good ones, unless its for a very specific purpose. So, a soul coin created with a good soul is probably the exception, although not impossible. I could see some deities intervening on a good souls behalf to save them from that fate. My opinion, backed up by BGitA says that soul coins are made from evil souls, I believe that the majority of soul coins encountered contain an evil one.

 

[Chaltab]

All that is basically how I see it though there are other ways good souls end up in hell in D&D, like Wyll in BG3 if you fail to do his patron's bidding