D&D 5E (2014) Is WotC ever going to release something high level? Even as UA test material?

[Raunalyn]

I know AL high level modules were mentioned, but does anyone else have suggestions for a good high level module on the DMs Guild? I'll certainly shell out the money...

That is my largest complaint about the DM's Guild...I don't know if there's a way to search by level for the modules on there.

 

[BMaC]

We play every fortnight or so. I run a campaign that meets monthly. So not bad, but a long way from EPIC!

Well, you're like our group then. I'm not sure why you haven't reached 14th level yet. Using milestone progression you should be able to get to 14th level if you just go through a single hardback AP. As I mentioned, our group did the Tiamat campaign in a year. We finished with five 14th level characters and then had a choice: homebrew or reboot. We're a 'mature' group with jobs and families and none of us have time to homebrew. As a result we started Out of the Abyss with new characters.

 

[Zardnaar]

TSR had Labyrinth of Madness for lvl 15+ in late 2E.

Even in Dungeon high level stuff was rare.

 

[S'mon]

Wow, you guys are really crapping on CapnZapp for sticking to his guns, it must make you feel like reasoned genial people. I also think it's against forum rules.

I've played to 20th twice now in 5E. Full casters and their insane versatility and power are very hard to account. I've been the DM once and the player once, and there is no avoiding catering everything to the specific spells your PCs can cast of 8th and 9th level. I can handle the fighter swinging his sword really fast, Meteor Swarm and Wish are a bit harder to not break the fiction handling. All that aside, it seems unlikely that WotC actually intended to play beyond 15th level because they could have easily extended any of their larger adventures to include all levels. There is a reason they didn't, accounting for full caster magic 15+ is a headache no one wants.

I can't imagine why Meteor Swarm would be a problem in a game where enemies routinely have hundreds of hit points.
5e Wish seems very limited - it's one of those 5e spells where you have to read & apply the description, not import assumptions from previous editions.

My experience is that high level 5e spellcasting is not a problem as long as you don't let caster players get away with acting like it's 3e/PF. Apply a 4e mindset where magic is one tool among many, and a spell effect is generally no more powerful than a good Athletics roll. If a spell creates an 'impermeable' barrier, well a door is impermeable too, but it's not infinitely strong. A level 6 Wall of Force might be impossible to breach physically (unless you're the
Tarrasque) but a Leomund's Tiny Hut certainly should not be. Set a reasonable DC (or use eg caster
spell attack bonus +10) & roll.

 

[jayoungr]

I know AL high level modules were mentioned, but does anyone else have suggestions for a good high level module on the DMs Guild? I'll certainly shell out the money...

I'm a fan of Palace of the Red Pasha, for level 16:

http://www.dmsguild.com/product/180659/DMs-Kit-Palace-of-the-Red-Pasha

It's written as a sequel to Rise of Tiamat, but it can stand alone. It has infiltration, exploration, and combat in a nice balance.

--In fact, I find that as I move into higher levels, I want the adventures to include more in-depth social interactions and puzzles. Those things keep the game interesting at every level.

That is my largest complaint about the DM's Guild...I don't know if there's a way to search by level for the modules on there.

It's actually pretty easy. Just click "Adventures" under "Product type" in the left sidebar, and an additional menu opens up allowing you to filter by level tiers.

 

[CydKnight]

I know AL high level modules were mentioned, but does anyone else have suggestions for a good high level module on the DMs Guild? I'll certainly shell out the money...

That is my largest complaint about the DM's Guild...I don't know if there's a way to search by level for the modules on there.

You can absolutely select Tier level as part of the search criteria at the panel on the left hand side of the DM's Guild main page.

 

[KahlessNestor]

Comparing AL Modules to Hardcover adventures is not equivalent in any sense. AL Modules are generally one-off adventures which take place in the same world and time as the hardcover of their season. Their scope and duration are necessarily limited. Furthermore, they are not even available to you if your only means of purchase is the FLGS. Many players want a consistent, long term adventure in which they work towards a large goal. They are part of the world and have impact on it.

If there are no official adventures like that at top tier, then I think its 100% fair to say that high level play is not fully supported. Fully allowed? Sure. But saying something is supported implies a little more than technically possible.

Also the implication of at least one post that hard cover adventures do not require effort on the part of the DM is absolutely absurd. It is an entirely different preparation process. You have to (if you intend to run it well) fully read and understand all parts of the adventure, then you can adjust the outcome of player actions according to what is happening. Its far easier to just say "You find another wizard" in a home campaign, then logically adjust the course of the campaign when players cause a major change. If you are reading from the pages of a hardcover for the first time at the table while running it, you are probably doing a bad job.

You obviously have access to the Internet if you're posting here, so that neans you have access to the DMs Guild, including AL adventures, as well as 3pp for things like Tome of Beasts that others have mentioned, so I think your complaint isn't really justified. ..

Sent from my SM-G900P using EN World mobile app

 

[discosoc]

I know AL high level modules were mentioned, but does anyone else have suggestions for a good high level module on the DMs Guild? I'll certainly shell out the money...

That is my largest complaint about the DM's Guild...I don't know if there's a way to search by level for the modules on there.

No suggestions other than to reiterate the fact that writing high-level adventures (T4, specifically) is kind of hard to do because of the way WotC designed the CR system, and the way magic (or the lack of it) can not only change the challenge by also bypass it entirely.

Like, an Ancient Red Dragon could be a TPK for a group of level 20's that aren't decently optimized (or the DM uses appropriate tactics for such a creature), but could also be killed by a well-organized group of level 15's, depending on the class makeup. That kind of variation is tough to plan for when your writing an adventure with no clue what the size and makeup will be of the party.

Or how do you write an adventure that has, say, 8 encounters, knowing that any number of them could be totally bypassed if the group can fly or teleport around -- possibly without ever knowing those encounters existed in the first place. To do that, you have to either restrict the usage of such spells and resources somehow, or structure it in a way that the group really just zips around from one Important Boss Fight to the next. If they can teleport, cool; if not, just paraphrase the journey. Either way your design space is a bit limited.

For these (and other) reasons, the high level adventures that you do stumble upon, are often designed to be vague pseudo-political romps where you RP with the elites for a few minutes before zipping over to the next boss fight, or they are essentially just high-CR encounter grinds with some half-assed plot to justify why you have to go kill 4 ancient dragons, a lich, and few pit fiends, and tarasque (and of course balancing it all without a clue as to what the characters are capable of).

 

[happyhermit]

The idea that a system not having "adventures" for a particular thing means that the system has no support for them is a strange perspective to me. I have played many systems over the years that had no adventures, or had adventures that only covered a small percentage of what the system was designed and used for, but nobody said the game didn't support those things, or claimed it showed the designers think that part of the game is bad. To a few people, somehow by putting out something for one part of a system (because it works well and people will buy it) means that if another part doesn't get the same attention it is flawed in some way.

Others have mentioned the main problems. Fewer people play at high level than low. High level adventures are not as good for introducing new players to the game. Parties become more divergent in everything at higher levels ie; level of optimization, quantity of magic items, position in the world (for example the PCs moving into domain type stuff really makes published adventures more of a stretc), etc. so it's less likely for an adventure to be relevant. I am sure things like this will come out, particularly adventures that are more constrained like Tomb of Horrors, but I can't see them becoming popular in any way.

 

[S'mon]

No suggestions other than to reiterate the fact that writing high-level adventures (T4, specifically) is kind of hard to do because of the way WotC designed the CR system, and the way magic (or the lack of it) can not only change the challenge by also bypass it entirely.

Like, an Ancient Red Dragon could be a TPK for a group of level 20's that aren't decently optimized (or the DM uses appropriate tactics for such a creature), but could also be killed by a well-organized group of level 15's, depending on the class makeup. That kind of variation is tough to plan for when your writing an adventure with no clue what the size and makeup will be of the party.

I think this is one reason why home conversions from other editions works so well - the high level GM *already* has to tailor the material to his group, and doing a conversion to 5e you're not fooled into thinking the work has already been done for you.

I recommend using the second half of Paizo APs, quality varies (I bought a fire giants adventure that was terrible) but there is a lot of good stuff that easily converts to 5e 15-20; eg the second half of Rise of the Runelords and Shattered Star which I am using currently. There is also good OSR stuff, which can take slightly more work - eg JN3 Saga of the Giants, which is free in pdf and print-at-cost - http://www.basicfantasy.org/downloads.html

For those who find hordes of giants overwhelming in 5e, adding 50% to OSR/BX type D&D levels works well, so eg levels 8-12 becomes 12-18. With Pathfinder it's more like 25%, eg level 10 in PF works as level 13 in 5e.