D&D 5E Is WotC ever going to release something high level? Even as UA test material?

[Zardnaar]

High level encounters are always hard to design and 5E doesn't have a great variety of higher level monsters.

My advice is throw the encounter guidelines out, use large numbers of lower CR critters (20 Ghouls, 40 Kobolds, 12 purple worms), use spell casters (in multiples). 4 invokers riding a dragon or wyvern each (hitting the PCs with 4 fireballs, chain lightnings etc), use multiples of high CR critters (4-6 beholders as part of a hive), use poison, use very nasty traps with spells like power word kill keyed on them. Put spells like foesight on NPC champions/important PCs.

Basically pull out all the stops.

 

[HobbitFan]

It would be good for WOTC to release some 15+ level material so we have something to go by when designing our own stuff.

 

[Zardnaar]

I think I have 3 or 4 high level adventures from Quests of Doom.

 

[S'mon]

High level encounters are always hard to design and 5E doesn't have a great variety of higher level monsters.

My advice is throw the encounter guidelines out, use large numbers of lower CR critters (20 Ghouls, 40 Kobolds, 12 purple worms), use spell casters (in multiples). 4 invokers riding a dragon or wyvern each (hitting the PCs with 4 fireballs, chain lightnings etc), use multiples of high CR critters (4-6 beholders as part of a hive), use poison, use very nasty traps with spells like power word kill keyed on them. Put spells like foesight on NPC champions/important PCs.

Basically pull out all the stops.

This is good advice, my only caveat is that hordes of ca CR 4 creatures may well be beatable but have such a huge amount of hit points that the battle can get really draggy. So I tend to recommend either huge numbers of CR 1 or below, or small groups of CR around 1/3 to 1/2 party level - 4 CR 9 or 8 CR 6 for a 4 PC level 18 party may be a bit slow but is doable, whereas 16 CR 4 is likely to feel very grindy IME. 12 purple worms (if you're
serious) feels extremely grindy I fear even at level 20.

Generally the 4e approach works best of having enemies in groups of similar size as the default encounter, with hordes of squishy minions that die in one hit, and occasional powerful solo monsters backed up by a few weaker allies.

 

[Zardnaar]

This is good advice, my only caveat is that hordes of ca CR 4 creatures may well be beatable but have such a huge amount of hit points that the battle can get really draggy. So I tend to recommend either huge numbers of CR 1 or below, or small groups of CR around 1/3 to 1/2 party level - 4 CR 9 or 8 CR 6 for a 4 PC level 18 party may be a bit slow but is doable, whereas 16 CR 4 is likely to feel very grindy IME. 12 purple worms (if you're
serious) feels extremely grindy I fear even at level 20.

Generally the 4e approach works best of having enemies in groups of similar size as the default encounter, with hordes of squishy minions that die in one hit, and occasional powerful solo monsters backed up by a few weaker allies.

Thats more or less the rules for 5E and its those rules that do not work so well as encounters are stupidly easy RAW in 5E although 4E had that as well.

 

[S'mon]

Thats more or less the rules for 5E and its those rules that do not work so well as encounters are stupidly easy RAW in 5E although 4E had that as well.

You thought the 4e rules made for stupidly easy encounters?

As I said earlier, in 5e use #monsters = # PCs & CR = 1/3 level for easy fights, CR = 2/3 level for
tough fights. For a single monster use CR = PL for easy fight or CR = 1.5 x PL for tough fight.
(For level 1 PCs one CR 2 monster can be very tough, but otherwise seems to work).

 

[Zardnaar]

You thought the 4e rules made for stupidly easy encounters?

As I said earlier, in 5e use #monsters = # PCs & CR = 1/3 level for easy fights, CR = 2/3 level for
tough fights. For a single monster use CR = PL for easy fight or CR = 1.5 x PL for tough fight.
(For level 1 PCs one CR 2 monster can be very tough, but otherwise seems to work).

Yes, this was with the original 4E rules. There was very little risk involved and the results were predictable. We made it to lvl 7, got enough xp to get to 8 and then chucked it in. It more or less translated to.

1. Roll dice for 30 mins to an hour
2. Get 3 or 4 combats over 4-5 hour session.
3. Automatically win ( to much healing available, monster damage was meh)
4. Get nothing else done (due to combat length)
5. Get bored and leave.

I had DDI, no one else did so they had no real way to build powerful PCs or ways to kill stuff faster. This was early 4E 3 core books only, DDI for me the DM did not help them much although I made some PCs for them in one game.

 

[S'mon]

Yes, this was with the original 4E rules. There was very little risk involved and the results were predictable. We made it to lvl 7, got enough xp to get to 8 and then chucked it in. It more or less translated to.

1. Roll dice for 30 mins to an hour
2. Get 3 or 4 combats over 4-5 hour session.
3. Automatically win ( to much healing available, monster damage was meh)
4. Get nothing else done (due to combat length)
5. Get bored and leave.

I had DDI, no one else did so they had no real way to build powerful PCs or ways to kill stuff faster. This was early 4E 3 core books only, DDI for me the DM did not help them much although I made some PCs for them in one game.

I didn't have that experience, EL=PL+0 fights were pretty routine but EL=PL+4 fights were definitely nasty at Heroic Tier. But there was a big problem with early 4e in that the MM monsters mostly did far too little damage. This was fixed to "average damage = Level+8" from MM3 onwards.

 

[Zardnaar]

I didn't have that experience, EL=PL+0 fights were pretty routine but EL=PL+4 fights were definitely nasty at Heroic Tier. But there was a big problem with early 4e in that the MM monsters mostly did far too little damage. This was fixed to "average damage = Level+8" from MM3 onwards.

Did not wait around long enough to find out. Basically if you don't get your core books right (and by that I mean PHB, DMG, MM or Rules Cyclopedia type book) why bother?

Even if they fixed the math or made the game flow better or whatever they were still selling something I was not interested in, ironically I ended up breaking out AD&D 2E again and then retroclones once I was ready to move on from 3.x.

 

[S'mon]

Did not wait around long enough to find out. Basically if you don't get your core books right (and by that I mean PHB, DMG, MM or Rules Cyclopedia type book) why bother?

I guess I was lucky I only got into 4e in 2010, right after they fixed the math and right before the line died!