Is your D&D campaign a game or a story?

Is your D&D campaign a game or a story?

  • 10 – All game, no story

    Votes: 5 1.9%
  • 9

    Votes: 6 2.3%
  • 8 – Mostly game, with story elements

    Votes: 55 20.8%
  • 7

    Votes: 22 8.3%
  • 6

    Votes: 18 6.8%
  • 5 – As much game as story, as much story as game

    Votes: 82 30.9%
  • 4

    Votes: 24 9.1%
  • 3

    Votes: 31 11.7%
  • 2 – Mostly story, with game elements

    Votes: 22 8.3%
  • 1

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 0 – All story, no game

    Votes: 0 0.0%

Odhanan said:
I don't think we are on the same page. I am advocating here that a role-playing game isn't about a story, it's about events. It's about "acting during (seamingly) real events", not "being in a story". It's about "being there", not "being an actor in a movie". It's about present and immersion, not narrative.

I think Umbran and you are missing each other's points.

For actors in a movie, they have to think in terms of their characters in the present, in the current scene. Players' have the same situation because they don't know what's coming. That immersion is what drives the narrative.

Think of your players like rats in a maze. You don't know what the rat will do and rats with different personalities do different things. The conflict between the PCs and the villains, the PCs and their environment, and the PCs and each other IS the narrative. It IS the story being told. For players it may be about immersion, but for DMs, the result is the narrative.
 

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Perhaps what really being discussed here is the notion of premeditated story vs making it up as you go?

If I'm gonna run with a new DM, and he starts talking about this amazing campaign and how he's got it mapped out to 20th level, then I start getting skeptical. I've had no input here. I've never had a good experience with these guys.

On the other hand, my way is to start the game with no preconcieved over arching plot (maybe an idea or two, but nothing concrete) Once we start playing I generally have a about 3 different directions the night's play can go.

ie: Do we go into the hills and find out the origins of the strange noises, do we go investigate the Orcs to the west and see what they're up to, or do we go and take out the Ogre that's been waylaying travellers? (simplistic, but illustrates my point) Then on subsequent game nights I build on whatever happened last week.

So, is either of them less of a story? Is it that DM 1's is more story than game because it was pre-planned? Is DM 2's more game than story because it wasn't?

I'm kinda leaning with the Shaman here. I don't think he's being read right.
 

Hussar said:
And, just to look at the current discussion for a moment, having gone through about 40 players before my current group in my online games, I can honestly say that most players have zero clue about driving a plot. If I started with a map of the city, the characters and said, "Well, what do you want to do?" I would get dead silence. I actually tried to do what TheShaman suggested in a city based adventure, and, it got me nowhere.

IME, most players want at least a little direction and guidance as to what they should be doing next.

While I agree that most Players do want direction and guidance (my post above talks about just that), I have to point out that you're thinking about a PC driven campaign in a self-defeating way in your example. Of course if you give the PCs a map and ask what they're going to do, you'll be met with blank stares. A map conveys almost nothing to them about the world. At best you can hope that they'll go around town looking for plot hooks.

A PC-driven game in which the PCs have goals and desires must be handled before the game begins to achieve its best success. It also has to have the PCs as co-creators of at least the initial campaign setup. I'll give an example.

In the current game I play in, Planescape, the DM started by asking us where we wanted the game to take place. We, the PCs, went for Sigil and decided that they wanted to be involved in the Lawful factions. As for myself, I decided I wanted to be part of the Harmonium as well as a religious order (which I created myself). I told the DM my Player goals which involved trying to free the Harmonium from its Evil influences (I'm a Paladin). The relogious order serves more as a plot device for the DM to drop hooks at me (because I enjoy those too).

Basically what it amounted to was the Players telling the DM what they wanted to do. This allows the DM to prepare adventures in advance, allows the PCs to go after their own goals, and it all happens without having to do massive amounts of DM winging as the PCs do random things (or at least less :p ). If the DM had just given me a map of Sigil and said, "What do you do?" then it would have been pretty much a failure as a campaign.
 

ALL story ALL game. As it is a game that tells a story. The results of the game dictate the story. It is not good to assume that to have story you need to sacrifice game or vice versa. I tend to go with the Col's point of view on this, except I would modify it to say that the story is not a nice bonus but simply a byproduct of the game process.

Simply put, the game is what you play, the story is what you remember.
 


I'm not really sure if my current running campaign is more 'game' or more 'story'--and I think people might be using those two words to mean at least four different things, and perhaps more. In fact, some of those definitions might be overlapping somewhat...

So let me propose an experiment: I'll list off a few things that I've recently done with my game (in the last two sessions) and you can tell me which term applies more ('game' or 'story'). In particular, I'd like to know The Shaman thinks--I actually find his approach to gaming an interesting one, encouraging as it does a great deal of improvisational skill from the players (often, it's just the DM that's called upon/expected to improvise--the extent of effect player improvisation can have is sometimes downplayed).

So here's my list:

In last week's session, the characters arrived in a large city. They needed transportation, so they asked for and found someone who could take them where they wanted to go. The transporter's fee was excessive, however, so the characters decided to trick him into accepting a worthless piece of glass as payment. They told him it was a magic item, I had them roll to see if their ploy worked, it did, and so they moved on.

Later in that session, one of the player characters asks another to craft some armor for them. The crafter gets some raw materials together, finds a forge, and sets to work. I then tell the crafter that she has the sudden idea that it might be neat to work in the design of an animal onto the armor. She doesn't have to, but it's an option that occurs to her. The player thinks for a moment, then decides to use the image of a tiger. Both the crafter and the player for whom the armor is being made find this acceptable, I call for a craft roll, and the game moves on.

Still later, a non-player character shows up with a crate of expensive dwarven brandy. This character (a former player's character of evil alignment) is disliked by most of the group. The players are given the option to drink with the NPC. Five refuse, two politely agree to have a small drink, and one gets roaring drunk and passes out. I don't use any rolls to see how 'drunk' anyone gets (the character who passes out deliberately decides to drink as much as they possibly can, so I simply rule they pass out over time and the game moves on).

In the next session, the characters are arrested for the murder of the NPC they didn't like (the one who brought them the brandy). In actuality, I've decided the NPC plotted to fake his own death and leave the player characters to take the fall (he didn't like them much either). In jail, the PC's are given the choice between three NPCs to defend them at their trial (two allies they had met before and one stranger). The group is unable to decide, so I start asking individual players to give me their character's suggestions. I then have one player roll a Diplomacy check to settle the arguement.

At the trial, the merchant whom the PCs earlier ripped off shows up as a character witness. He tells the jury about the PC's bad business practices, and opinion sways against them. I improvised this situation, and also had a couple of other things the characters had done previously come back during the trial.

Some of the player characters get up and make speeches defending themselves during the trial (these speeches are roleplayed, though I secretly roll Diplomacy checks afterwards to see how much of an effect each speech has). One character, a rough and practical adventurer, tells the jury that if the party had been plotting to kill the NPC in question, they would have obviously done it outside of town where they couldn't have gotten in trouble for it. This actually does very little to help the character's case, but the players are all amused.​

So I'd be interested in hearing your opinions. Am I more of a storyteller or a gameplayer?
 

I chose 5/5 but could probably lean more to the story side. As a Gm i like to run a sandbox game, I don't worry about what the players are going to do but rather on what the NPCs are doing. I ask the players what they want to do, prepare and present a game for them, then alter the NPCs future actions according to their actions if needed. There do tend to be story arcs of what is going on around the PCs but they don't have to be a part of it. If choose to be, then they can change things by their actions, and if they choose not to be, then I try to make what is happening offscreen exciting and interesting enough to hold the player's attentions while I describe it.

The last game I started was built as a dead even power struggle between three factions. If the players didn't get involved, then the status quo remained and nothing really changed. If the players opted to join one of the three factions, then they would tip everything in favor of that faction. Which faction to join was completly up to them. In the end, they heavily favored one faction almost soley due to RP issues determined by how they envisioned their characters rather than any of the offers made by the factions to recruit.
 

I consider this question to be analogous to asking whether soccer is a game or kicking a ball, and to what extent it is one or another.

It isn't either to the exclusion of the other. It is wholly both.
 

Teflon Billy said:
5 for me...
My number too but I actually think a good game can have more than 5 in both categories
It's both, and I'm not really interested in "one or the other". I currently game with a guy who seriously places story first, and it is really getting on my nerves.

I'm not even sure why we made characters given the amount of "handwaving" that goes on with regards to our superpowers.

His endless bitching about my bringing up "Rules" during play is aggravating as well. I've tried to explain ad nauseum that "Rules are the Physics we sue to interact with your setting", but he disagrees. We are basically there to give improvised dialogue at appropriate points in his grand epic.
Not only dp I know which campaign you're talking about but I'm gratified that you're using my quote about physics on our friend. Tell him it's my line and see if it has more authority. :)
 

I have done 8, I have done 1, and I voted 5, I am pretty much game for whatever, if we want to do improv theatre, I am down for it. You wanna go tactical, I'm down for that too.

I like the company, the beer, the pizza, hanging out with my buddies, and I can get down to tactics, improv, or both, anytime.
 

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