Istoria: Generic Humanocentric Game - [Was Elements of Magic]

[Ferrix]

Sure, with a +6 worn item and a +5 tome (or 5 consecutive wishes) and all 5 level-based increases, that's up to 34. I've never played a character who reached 34 in an ability score. I usually thought my gold was better spent elsewhere rather than on those 5 wish spells, or I didn't start with an 18.

Still, if you're going with that many points, maybe I'll try going as high as 30.
Edit: Oooh, save DC 20 on a cantrip? Yes, please!

For a focused character, say a wizard, that 34 Int is crucial. I've played a good many high level games and epic ones as well and most characters had at least one or two stats in the 30's.

Although, do realize it'll take you quite a long time starting at level 1 to get a 30

JohnnyFive and other players, there's a lot of world info to come, but are you looking for something specific that I focus on to help you along?

 

[genshou]

Mental Ability Scores and Spellcasting

In Elements of Magic - Revised, Intelligence grants bonus signature spells and Charisma modifies spell DCs. All three ability scores affect specific magical skills. Casters are not required to have an ability score be a specific value in order to cast spells with a certain MP cost. What, if anything, of that is changing in this game?

 

[Ferrix]

In Elements of Magic - Revised, Intelligence grants bonus signature spells and Charisma modifies spell DCs. All three ability scores affect specific magical skills. Casters are not required to have an ability score be a specific value in order to cast spells with a certain MP cost. What, if anything, of that is changing in this game?

In order of appearance.

Your tradition ability (Intelligence for Hermetic, Wisdom for Spiritual, Charisma for Sorcererous) grants bonus signature spells. The DC for a spell is based off of the traditions ability depending upon which spell list it comes from.

Dispel Magic remains Charisma based.
Divination remains Wisdom based.
Scry becomes Intelligence based.
Spellcraft is your traditions ability.

Casters are not required to have an ability score of a specific value in order to cast spells with a certain MP cost is changed to the following.

To cast spells of a certain MP cost, a caster must have an ability modifier in the traditions prime ability equal to half of the MP cost of a spell. Thus a Hermetic mage with an Intelligence of 18 could cast spells from the lists accorded to his tradition that cost up to 8 MP. The same Hermetic mage only has a 12 Wisdom and so could only cast spells from the lists accorded to the Spiritual tradition that cost up to 2 MP.

For spell lists which appear in multiple traditions, use the most beneficial ability related to that spell list.

The Extra Spell List feat has the following addendum: The spell list you learn from this feat is considered part of your tradition and you use your traditions ability modifier for this spell list when determining the maximum MP cost of the spell and it's DC.

 

[Ferrix]

I realise those rulings limit the versatility of spellcasters and the height of their power, but that is part of the world in a way. Magic is powerful and bends the rules of reality, breaking them and even rewriting them at the highest ends. Thus it gets more and more difficult the more powerful the spells go.

Don't expect to encounter too too many high level spellcasters who aren't multiclassed

 

[genshou]

Scry becomes Intelligence based.

I was going to play a spiritual mage just so I could be good at Divination, Heal, Infuse, and Scry. If I may ask, what prompted the change in key score?

 

[Ferrix]

I was going to play a spiritual mage just so I could be good at Divination, Heal, Infuse, and Scry. If I may ask, what prompted the change in key score?

One for each ability.

 

[genshou]

To cast spells of a certain MP cost, a caster must have an ability modifier in the traditions prime ability equal to half of the MP cost of a spell. Thus a Hermetic mage with an Intelligence of 18 could cast spells from the lists accorded to his tradition that cost up to 8 MP. The same Hermetic mage only has a 12 Wisdom and so could only cast spells from the lists accorded to the Spiritual tradition that cost up to 2 MP.

I'm not sure about this. It sounds a little too harsh given the fact that this is going to already be a lower-powered campaign as far as magic items go. If I play a Spiritual caster I pretty much can't deal damage–at all. It takes a score of 30 to cast 20-MP spells with these rules, and I just won't have the points to keep my Charisma high enough to be effective.

If someone else plays a Mage with a high Charisma, we may be able to survive, but even then the two of us would both just be lacking the versatility that is the only thing allowing EoMR casters to compensate for their lack of power relative to core spellcasters.

Sorry if I'm just seeming adversarial; I'm just a bit concerned about being restricted so much it renders my character ineffective.

 

[Ferrix]

No offense on your defensive stance, I can understand.

I'm just trying to figure out a way to differentiate the traditions mechanically as well as effectively. If you've got suggestions I'd be glad to hear them.

Also, regarding the upper levels of magic, I don't really expect it to get there.

How about this change to the maximum MP cost.

The maximum amount of MP you can spend on a spell from a traditions spell lists is equal to that tradition attribute - 10 multiplied by 2. Thus, a mage with a 16 Intelligence, 12 Wisdom, and 12 Charisma can spend 12 MP on a spell associated with the Hermetic tradition, 4 MP on a spell associated with the Spiritual traditon, and 4 MP on a spell associated with the Sorcererous tradition.

I'm also willing to negotiate what spell lists are tied to what tradition. They are both an attempt at balance and flavor.

 

[genshou]

Personally, I just never used traditions. The whole point of EoMR is to open up options to all casters so they can build the spells they want. I made a character who was an absolute healer type, and he ended up being very deadly with an Evoke Good/Light spell he called Spear of Heaven.

Do you have Elements of Magic II: Lyceian Arcana? It handles magical traditions in a really cool way with feats that help define the way the Mage gets their spells.

Edit: Also, your compromise makes a bit more sense to me. Having to get a 20 in a score won't be difficult for a really high-level PC, but the real challenge in mastery of 20-MP spells is reaching 20th-level.

 

[Ferrix]

Personally, I just never used traditions. The whole point of EoMR is to open up options to all casters so they can build the spells they want. I made a character who was an absolute healer type, and he ended up being very deadly with an Evoke Good/Light spell he called Spear of Heaven.

Do you have Elements of Magic II: Lyceian Arcana? It handles magical traditions in a really cool way with feats that help define the way the Mage gets their spells.

Edit: Also, your compromise makes a bit more sense to me. Having to get a 20 in a score won't be difficult for a really high-level PC, but the real challenge in mastery of 20-MP spells is reaching 20th-level.

Indeed the difficulty is attaining 20th level, not the 20 in the score.

Traditions were a part of this game before I even got around to switching it over to EoMR and I would prefer to keep them. I don't have EoM II, so I won't be using anything from it.