It is time to forgive WOTC and get back onboard.
- Thread starter ECMO3
- Start date
Not for 5E material they can't and their ability to do it even before they put it on creative commons was questionable.
Sure they could come out again and claim "we are revoking OGL 1.0a" but that is a ball of mess and keep in mind to take legal action they don't just need to revoke OLG 1.0a, they need to defend their IP in court.
It is pretty difficult to even think of the argument here that works and says it is illegal for someone else to use their IP even though they have released it on CC.
Jack Daniel
Legend
I wasn't a Wot¢ customer before this mess; they just dragged me into it by coming after the OGL.
The best they can hope for from me is that I'll go back to not thinking about them and not talking about them in addition to not buying anything from them.
But if I do have to mention either Wot¢ or Ha$bro again, the creative orthography is now a permanent fixture. That's what they've earned: a permanent reminder of the shenanigans they tried to pull.
The best they can hope for from me is that I'll go back to not thinking about them and not talking about them in addition to not buying anything from them.
But if I do have to mention either Wot¢ or Ha$bro again, the creative orthography is now a permanent fixture. That's what they've earned: a permanent reminder of the shenanigans they tried to pull.
Imaro
Legend
Not sure what I am "forgiving"? A company contemplated a move they believed would increase their market share, revenue, profits, etc... in other words, exactly what they as a publicly traded company are supposed to do. Their consumers let them know they didn't like the direction they were moving in and they rolled back on their decision. What am I supposed to be mad about again? That they considered doing something I didn't agree with?
I'll check out the movie in March, I'm eagerly anticipating Planescape later this year and will continue to buy anything else that catches my interest from WotC as well as continuing my DnD Beyond sub for now (the value proposition of sharing books for me and my players on one master sub is insane).
I'll check out the movie in March, I'm eagerly anticipating Planescape later this year and will continue to buy anything else that catches my interest from WotC as well as continuing my DnD Beyond sub for now (the value proposition of sharing books for me and my players on one master sub is insane).
I think what we're seeing is that many fans of D&D feel either betrayed or dismayed by the rest of the D&D community.
I have a feeling that they think that all this turning of backs by the D&D community against WotC is pointless, because WotC gave up trying to change things, so why not let bygones be bygones? I think there's a further deep seated fear that if such a large portion of the fandom stops buying their products, then the following would happen:
For #2, I feel for 3PP, but I think in the long run, this will benefit them too if OneD&D/5e/D&D/OGL is no longer the dominant platform in the TTRPG industry. As a post by Morrus indicated earlier, sales for non-D&D games by other companies have shot up substantially (good for them!!). I hope that trend continues. And I hope 3PP continue to make non-D&D games and supplements, or make them cross compatible with several systems (that's how it used to be in the good ole days).
For #3, I think in some ways, this is the biggest fear for those who are tired of the WotC bashers or at least want them to come "back to the fold". Me personally, I couldn't stomach playing in a group who only wanted to play D&D all the time. If that's your thing, more power to you...but I don't think they should bemoan losing some market (ie other players) to non-D&D. And personally, I'd recommend to those who have that fear to try some other games. I've analogized only playing D&D to always eating pizza before. Why not branch out and try some lasagna? Or Manicotti? Or heck, why not be really brave and eat some sushi, or Pad Thai (ie, something not fantasy or a D&D clone like Pathfinder, 13th Age, etc)?
I mean, I hate to tell people what they should or shouldn't like, but when I hear some people say "I love D&D, and that's all I will play thank you very much!", it really makes me wonder. Is there really a fear of trying something else? Is it because they feel like learning a new system is that much of a hassle? Do people really love D&D that much (I truly find this hard to believe, afterall, are there really people who only watches only sci-fi, or comedy, or drama, or cop shows, etc etc)?
While it hasn't gotten as bad yet as treating those who turn their backs on WotC as Apostates, I feel like if any of the 3 above do start happening, it's what it will become like.
I have a feeling that they think that all this turning of backs by the D&D community against WotC is pointless, because WotC gave up trying to change things, so why not let bygones be bygones? I think there's a further deep seated fear that if such a large portion of the fandom stops buying their products, then the following would happen:
- Less money for WotC to produce new content
- Less incentive for 3PP to create new product because D&D will be less of a market leader
- Less people to play with
For #2, I feel for 3PP, but I think in the long run, this will benefit them too if OneD&D/5e/D&D/OGL is no longer the dominant platform in the TTRPG industry. As a post by Morrus indicated earlier, sales for non-D&D games by other companies have shot up substantially (good for them!!). I hope that trend continues. And I hope 3PP continue to make non-D&D games and supplements, or make them cross compatible with several systems (that's how it used to be in the good ole days).
For #3, I think in some ways, this is the biggest fear for those who are tired of the WotC bashers or at least want them to come "back to the fold". Me personally, I couldn't stomach playing in a group who only wanted to play D&D all the time. If that's your thing, more power to you...but I don't think they should bemoan losing some market (ie other players) to non-D&D. And personally, I'd recommend to those who have that fear to try some other games. I've analogized only playing D&D to always eating pizza before. Why not branch out and try some lasagna? Or Manicotti? Or heck, why not be really brave and eat some sushi, or Pad Thai (ie, something not fantasy or a D&D clone like Pathfinder, 13th Age, etc)?
I mean, I hate to tell people what they should or shouldn't like, but when I hear some people say "I love D&D, and that's all I will play thank you very much!", it really makes me wonder. Is there really a fear of trying something else? Is it because they feel like learning a new system is that much of a hassle? Do people really love D&D that much (I truly find this hard to believe, afterall, are there really people who only watches only sci-fi, or comedy, or drama, or cop shows, etc etc)?
While it hasn't gotten as bad yet as treating those who turn their backs on WotC as Apostates, I feel like if any of the 3 above do start happening, it's what it will become like.
ThorinTeague
Creative/Father/Professor
It seems to be 5.1 plus a few chicken nuggets... E.g. mind flayer
ThorinTeague
Creative/Father/Professor
They can go bananas with any new ogl as much as they want. They can demand 3pps firstborn child to the fifth generation. They can demand tribute brought to them in a golden chest and laid at their feet while they're being fed grapes and fanned with palm leaves.
What they cannot do is disallow use of any prior version.
ThorinTeague
Creative/Father/Professor
WoTC tries to pull a fraud, breach of contract, And the most shameless and egregious--not to mention illegal money grab in history.
And D&D players feel betrayed by the TTRPG community.
If true, That's a huge win for WoTC, who was used to MTG players which are competitive not cooperative and much more easily divided and isolated.
I'm not sure how that's a positive for WotC? Can you elaborate? If I were in WotC's shoes, I would want a unified player market, not a divisive one. Those three bullet points I mentioned aren't just bad for the players who want the community to open their arms up again for WotC, it's bad for WotC too.
The big question I have is how many other D&D players feel betrayed or at least dismayed that a large number of players don't want to forgive Hasbro/WotC? Is it a small percentage? As large or larger than the number of players who still want to boycott WotC even after their reversal? Somewhere in-between?
I also wonder if this will create more bad blood in the future. Not between the players (of either side) and the WotC, but between those who stayed "faithful" to WotC, and those abandon D&D all together. Maybe it will be like the D&D/Pathfinder split? Not exactly acrimonious and bitter, but I think a lot of Pathfinder people never looked back (I could be wrong, I wasn't following the D&D drama that much during the 3.5/4e split days...so that's just my anecdotal take on it). I think the OGL drama was worse though, and the damage might be more costly...or maybe that's just my wishful thinking, hoping a large swath of gamers will discover many new genres and games.
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