It is time to forgive WOTC and get back onboard.

[UngeheuerLich]

I feel that this is exactly the situation we don't want, because that's what led to all this hubbub to begin with. And I don't just direct that sentiment at D&D--I personally don't think there should be any one single King of the Hill in the RPG world.

Please speak for yourself. I want OneD&D to be the best D&D.

I think with a big D&D other RPGs can grow under the big tent.

 

[Imaro]

Wow. This is whitewashing the whole debacle pretty hard.
They did more than "contemplate" and "consider".
To say otherwise is disingenuous.

What did they actually do? What actually changed?

 

[BrokenTwin]

As a suggestion don’t wait a week or two. If you want to see another D&D movie or tv show in your lifetime this needs to be a huge success. Best way to do that is build buzz early with big box office numbers.

Eh, the failure of a D&D movie isn't going to spell the end of action fantasy movies. Nobody other than Hasbo NEEDS this movie to succeed.

What did they actually do? What actually changed?

They didn't contemplate and consider, they attempted and failed, causing a lot of independent publishers (some of whom have nothing to do with the d20 fantasy environment) considerable duress in doing so.

 

[Imaro]

They didn't contemplate and consider, they attempted and failed, causing a lot of independent publishers (some of whom have nothing to do with the d20 fantasy environment) considerable duress in doing so.

So they didn't actually "do" anything. They contemplated and considered how to accomplish something but failed which is my point...

Edit: To clarify, IMO an attempt would have settled the question one way or another if the 1.oa OGL is revocable.

 

[ThorinTeague]

As a suggestion don’t wait a week or two. If you want to see another D&D movie or tv show in your lifetime this needs to be a huge success. Best way to do that is build buzz early with big box office numbers.

For those of us who have already seen the 2 that came before it (bloody hell, just looked it up and found 3 more direct to video D&D films--just in case the others weren't bad enough), we're not really worried about more being made. There is so much other fantasy that is far far better in film these days. And the days of yore, too.

 

[Bix and Box]

What did they actually do? What actually changed?

Like I already said elsewhere, if someone tries to rob a bank and is stopped, should we completely forget what they were attempting, just because we stopped them?

What would have happened if we didn't stop WotC, and they got everything they wanted?

Do you think they've stopped wanting it?

 

[ThrorII]

While WotC has made some key steps just to repair completely avoidable damage, they have in no way earned goodwill or trust yet. That's a long road to walk, and they shouldn't expect most customers who left to return any time soon.

That said, I hope people who were planning on returning if this event happened are able to have a good time with their DnD stuff.

As for everyone else who took this experience as the push they needed to try other TTRPGs, I really hope that they don't come directly back. There's nothing wrong with playing DnD again, of course, but there are so many other experiences to be had with other systems—many of these players might have far more fun moving away from DnD.

I haven't played WotC D&D at all since 2020, and only played sporadically since 2018. I was angry with them over the OGL and 3PPs. I find 3PPs and OGL material much more creative and usable than anything WotC D&D puts out.

I am not currently a WotC customer, am not part of their target audience, and wasn't planning on being one. I just want my hobby safe and prosperous.

Don't get me wrong, I still play D&D. I just don't play WotC D&D.

 

[Imaro]

Like I already said elsewhere, if someone tries to rob a bank and is stopped, should we completely forget what they were attempting, just because we stopped them?

Apples and oranges... one is illegal while the legality of the other isn't decided... try comparing like and like.

What would have happened if we didn't stop WotC, and they got everything they wanted?

Uhmm, you're answering your own hypothetical here...They get everything they want?? But they didn't...

Do you think they've stopped wanting it?

Does it matter since they didn't get it? Why are we debating hypotheticals and unknowable questions??

 

[Dustin_00]

They can go bananas with any new ogl as much as they want. They can demand 3pps firstborn child to the fifth generation. They can demand tribute brought to them in a golden chest and laid at their feet while they're being fed grapes and fanned with palm leaves.

What they cannot do is disallow use of any prior version.

It's not a question of what they could win/prove in court.

WotC can throw their legal team against a 3PP that is 5 states over from where they file in Washington state and had $100s in sales with no legal support. WotC can win by default with the 3PP just not showing up in the Washington state court as just the travel and related expenses would destroy their profits... and heaven help you if you lost because now you're paying WotC for their lawyers.

 

[jerryrice4949]

For those of us who have already seen the 2 that came before it (bloody hell, just looked it up and found 3 more direct to video D&D films--just in case the others weren't bad enough), we're not really worried about more being made. There is so much other fantasy that is far far better in film these days. And the days of yore, too.

I realize you are trying to be humerous . Yup there were several before that stunk. That is why this needs to do well. The D&D movie doing well will bring more people and creators to the hobby. There is a lot of great fantasy on tv right now and some awful but none of that will grow this hobby like a blockbuster D&D movie.

 

[Bix and Box]

Does it matter since they didn't get it? Why are we debating hypotheticals and unknowable questions??

There's nothing hypothetical about what they were attempting and what would have happened if they weren't stopped.

Just because you stop someone from screwing you doesn't mean they weren't trying to screw you.

 

[BrokenTwin]

So they didn't actually "do" anything. They contemplated and considered how to accomplish something but failed which is my point...

Edit: To clarify, IMO an attempt would have settled the question one way or another if the 1.oa OGL is revocable.

You can't fail at something by "considering and contemplating". There was an active attempt. That's not "thought", that is "action". They caused harm to others as a direct and intended result of their actions. They emailed other companies and attempted to strongarm them into signing a contract that would restrict their access to their livelihoods by threatening them with an even worse restriction to their livelihood via legally dubious means. That may not be legally extortion, but it certainly is in the common sense of the word.

Edit: Heck, the fact that they DID back down instead of letting things proceed to the courts strongly implies that they KNEW what they were doing was legally dubious, and that there would be legal repercussions if they continued.

 

[Maxperson]

I forgive them.

I will not forget. And I will not trust.

But I forgive.

So I'll buy any 5e book that seems interesting to me, or even exciting. And I'll use it with A5e going forward. I'll mine it for ideas and concepts and the building blocks of other materials that I can produce because it's good to get different ideas together and blend them into new ones.

I will also buy quality books they put out. However, I have not yet forgiven them, nor do I trust them. They've betrayed trust multiple times in the past, though in far more minor ways. I will never trust the company. As for forgiveness, what they did was a huge step in the right direction, but one that should never have needed to be taken. It's going to take more for me to forgive them completely.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Eh, the failure of a D&D movie isn't going to spell the end of action fantasy movies. Nobody other than Hasbo NEEDS this movie to succeed.

I want it to succed. I want more D&S movies if they are good.
So I will go there on the first weekend and bring some friends with me. If the movie is actually good I might go in twice with more friends.

I will buy WotC stuff if it is good.
As always.

Do I do that for WotC? No.
I do it for me.

Do I think anyone is harmed? No. 3pp can get so much out of that whole thing, if they are clever, that in the end, they can indeed thank WotC.
And I wish them well.

Every person watching a great D&D movie will potentially be a D&D player and then eventually a 3pp buyer or even better someone buying an original game.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

By the way, please do not miscontrue my severence with D&D as a judgement on anyone else. Yes I am both passionate and vocal. That is more of a matter of principle than any particular need to control any results. When it comes to me, everyone can rest assured that I will not gatekeep or judge against D&D for anyone who continues to play and love the game, go see the movie, or truthfully even be fans of WoTC.

As a suggestion--waiting a week or two to see the movie, if you can bring yourself to do it, is pretty near as good as a boycott. If moviegoers can even bring themselves to wait until after opening weekend, it would be a big win. But you do you and I'm not going to judge.

I am sorry. I am as patient as the people who could not wait a week to allow WotC to get to the conclusion that folding might be the best option...
so I will see it as soon as possible.
The more successful, the bigger the chance we see a other movie. As I said above: the more successful the movie, the bigger the potential playerbase.

 

[Reynard]

I think we should let the movie exist independently of the game. I mean, WotC obviously feels the same way...

 

[Imaro]

There's nothing hypothetical about what they were attempting and what would have happened if they weren't stopped.

Just because you stop someone from screwing you doesn't mean they weren't trying to screw you.

You're asking what would have happened if... thats the hypothetical.

But, ok how about this... If WotC got what they wanted it would have ushered in a golden age fot D&DOne where robust electronic tools were available with a fully integrated VTT featuring 3D assets and all WotC source material for a monthly fee. Furthermore 3pp would be incentiviced to focus their efforts on creating an ecosystem that supported the current (evergreen??) edition of D&D as opposed to competing games and or re-packages of WotC and TSR's older games...

Now depending on your stance that could be horrible or it could be a goddsend... or it could just be one possible hypothetical among many...

 

[Imaro]

You can't fail at something by "considering and contemplating". There was an active attempt. That's not "thought", that is "action". They caused harm to others as a direct and intended result of their actions. They emailed other companies and attempted to strongarm them into signing a contract that would restrict their access to their livelihoods by threatening them with an even worse restriction to their livelihood via legally dubious means. That may not be legally extortion, but it certainly is in the common sense of the word.

Yeah you can... by choosing not to do it.

Edit: Heck, the fact that they DID back down instead of letting things proceed to the courts strongly implies that they KNEW what they were doing was legally dubious, and that there would be legal repercussions if they continued.

I don't think it implies that at all. Occam's Razor... the negative publicity, social media, etc was not a good look especially with so many initiatives up in the air.

 

[doctorhook]

I feel that this is exactly the situation we don't want, because that's what led to all this hubbub to begin with. And I don't just direct that sentiment at D&D--I personally don't think there should be any one single King of the Hill in the RPG world.

I agree. And I’m not convinced it’s possible for one game to be all things. But… I’m willing to be open minded about One D&D at the same time as I’m 99% not at attached to WotC’s games anymore.

 

[ECMO3]

I feel that this is exactly the situation we don't want, because that's what led to all this hubbub to begin with. And I don't just direct that sentiment at D&D--I personally don't think there should be any one single King of the Hill in the RPG world.

I think they problem with this idea is that the "one single king" is why the RPG world united. It is the game specifically that caused the sense of cooperation as you called it.

I don't think that community cooperativeness will exist in the future in a fractured community.