It is time to forgive WOTC and get back onboard.

[Jaeger]

5.1 SRD, is in the CC.

No?

They already released the 5.1 SRD under CC-BY-4.0.

Surprised again!

It is the full SRD.

Now I'm suspicious as hell...

3. They can do OGL 1.2 again at any time. We know they want to.

So moved on, never looking back.

^This^

Maybe I'm too jaded, but this complete capitulation seems wayyy too easy...

 

[Aberzanzorax]

Not sure what I am "forgiving"? A company contemplated a move they believed would increase their market share, revenue, profits, etc... in other words, exactly what they as a publicly traded company are supposed to do. Their consumers let them know they didn't like the direction they were moving in and they rolled back on their decision. What am I supposed to be mad about again? That they considered doing something I didn't agree with?

I'll check out the movie in March, I'm eagerly anticipating Planescape later this year and will continue to buy anything else that catches my interest from WotC as well as continuing my DnD Beyond sub for now (the value proposition of sharing books for me and my players on one master sub is insane).

Wow. This is whitewashing the whole debacle pretty hard.
They did more than "contemplate" and "consider".
To say otherwise is disingenuous.

 

[Velderan]

Surprised again!

It is the full SRD.

Now I'm suspicious as hell...




^This^

Maybe I'm too jaded, but this complete capitulation seems wayyy too easy...

They had to.

They don't want angry fans continuing to make national headlines right before their big movie release and upcoming streaming show. News of Paizo's surge in sales certainly gave credibility to them losing a lot of their audience.

Right, wrong, or indifferent, someone in WotC with enough authority didn't want this OGL drama overshadowing their big media deals because THAT is where the big money is. If those things do well? Selling books and VTT subs will probably do just fine

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Forgive? Not yet, but eventually.

Forget? Absolutely not.

 

[Weiley31]

There's nothing wrong if you and your group decide to go back to DND. You wanna play 5E or any of the older editions, then that's totally fine. (Especially if you dedicate your purchases first to 3rd party content/other content creators and THEN see if you want to buy any official 5E products).

There's nothing wrong, because of WoTC souring goodwill, if you/your group don't want to play/support em again as a result of it.

And there's nothing wrong if everybody switched to a new system, even if getting pretty much what was wanted, was achieved.

Right now, people have seen there are PLENTY of options that exist out there for the TTRPG scene. And right now, a number of major players in the TTRPG scene are taking steps now to create their own systems/working up defenses for the next time, if WoTC decides to be stupid/this happens again. (And hopefully it never does. It shouldn't now thanks to the 1.0A OGL being left alone and the CC happening). And now you have the ORC coming about and how that will probably make a big splash on the scene. (Honestly, it probably was part of the reasoning on WoTC's end to upload/update the whole 5E System SRD 5.1 alongside everything else as well).

Regardless, don't harp on people who decide to resume playing 5E. I've seen a number of bad takes that were along the lines of "Man, I just love how everybody just NOW forgave/love WoTC now that the OGL is safe. Guess you all didn't want fair equal treatment all along and were just joining the fight for Clout."

Or insert whatever other bad take response people can come up with.

Let people just FINALLY take a deep breath now and enjoy some dice rolling. It's still a Victory. And WoTC learned an important lesson: it's gonna take some time to regain the goodwill they've built up. So even if it takes forever to forgive em, then so be it. And if it never happens? Oh well, tough its.

Nobody has said that we've forgotten.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

This was done when D&D nerd Peter Adkinson ran the roost at WotC, pre Hasbro buyout.

The buyout was 1999, the ogl 1.0a at least was 2000. So I think you need to get your facts straight.
Edit: ok, you were already corrected. Sorry.

Edit 2, to add something to the thread.

Forgiving is something you foremost do for yourself, not the one you forgive.
People adding lauging memes adressed at the people who do want to forgive is dismissive. It is not that people who want to forgive are too dumb to know what WotC has done. They know about the damage done.
And in the end, WotC folded totally and completely. Not out of the good of their corporate heart, but because they knew, the only thing they can achieve is a pyrrhic victory, which is more loss than win. What they also did however was not burning everything out of spite and go to court, which might have left a lot of 3pp producers with nothing. Even if they would have lost in court after a few years, I think it would have equally led to a pyrrhic victory for the other side.
So stepping back was in some way a bold move.

 

[Scribe]

So stepping back was in some way a bold move.

You just outlined, correctly, how it was really their only move.

 

[Bix and Box]

Whipped in the field, they boldly retreated.

 

[Parmandur]

Do people really love D&D that much (I truly find this hard to believe, afterall, are there really people who only watches only sci-fi, or comedy, or drama, or cop shows, etc etc)?

Yes, that the answer to the whole shebang right there: people do just actively enjoy Dungeons & Dragons. I've never trusted WotC as a company farther than I can physically throw the abstract concept of the company...but I love the products that the design team produces. If the product changed, I'd possibly grow bored and wander off.

And I do play other systems (DCC, Call of Cthulu, and Traveller are favorites).

 

[Reynard]

They can't really fool you again though, because it's done. It's in the Creative Commons. They can't do take-backsies even if they want.

The 5E SRD is not the extent of the open gaming content. Releasing it to the CC makes it so new 5E material can be produced, but the OGL 1.0a is needed to continue lines that exist (not to mention material related to other SRDs and games released under it).

 

[UngeheuerLich]

You just outlined, correctly, how it was really their only move.

Nope. They could have pulled through and see all crash and burn, hoping that DdD will rise up some time later.

Edit: and 40000 subscriber less seems a lot. But even with DM accounts, it is just 4 Million dollar a year. Which is not much for WotC.

 

[Jaeger]

Forgiving is something you foremost do for yourself, not the one you forgive.
People adding lauging memes adressed at the people who do want to forgive is dismissive.

Yes it is. Completely.

"It is time to forgive WOTC and get back onboard."

Get back onboard? Really!?

After what Wotzi wanted to do... For the second time running?

No thank you. No one should bow down and go back to lick the hand that feeds.

Also; No Forgiveness =/= Staying Angry.

Never forgive, never forget is a valid and healthy option when dealing with the completely untrustworthy.

 

[Scribe]

Edit: and 40000 subscriber less seems a lot. But even with DM accounts, it is just 4 Million dollar a year. Which is not much for WotC

No, not when Magic carries D&D on its back.

 

[RareBreed]

Yes, that the answer to the whole shebang right there: people do just actively enjoy Dungeons & Dragons. I've never trusted WotC as a company farther than I can physically throw the abstract concept of the company...but I love the products that the design team produces. If the product changed, I'd possibly grow bored and wander off.

And I do play other systems (DCC, Call of Cthulu, and Traveller are favorites).

But if you play other games, that's reasonable and means you are open to something else.

I have seen some people say in threads (on other forums, I don't recall any saying that here) that they only wish to play D&D in one incarnation or another. I also saw some Youtube videos that suggested new games to play after the OGL debacle, and people thanked the creator, because they didn't even know other games existed.

That's the kind of thing that really makes me scratch my head.

 

[Parmandur]

The 5E SRD is not the extent of the open gaming content. Releasing it to the CC makes it so new 5E material can be produced, but the OGL 1.0a is needed to continue lines that exist (not to mention material related to other SRDs and games released under it).

Yes, but the CC maneuver means that the OGL isn't going to be messed with now, due to a lack of motivation.

It will be interesting to see what they do with OneD&D now: based on the playtesting so far, it will be compatible with 5E (at least 3.5-Pathfinder levels of compatible), but will they put out a new SRD, wither in CC or OGL? Will they put out 2 SRDs, or bring back a System Trademark License (which is what they should have done here, and leave the OGL alone)? There was apparently a 5.2 SRD with more material that was supposed to drop in mid-January: is that dead, or will we see that soon after all? And what about older edition D&D?

Kyle Brinks is going on an interview circuit with influences in the next week, apparently, ao hopefully we get some answers.

 

[Parmandur]

But if you play other games, that's reasonable and means you are open to something else.

I have seen some people say in threads (on other forums, I don't recall any saying that here) that they only wish to play D&D in one incarnation or another. I also saw some Youtube videos that suggested new games to play after the OGL debacle, and people thanked the creator, because they didn't even know other games existed.

That's the kind of thing that really makes me scratch my head.

I mean, people really, really love D&D.

 

[Bix and Box]

and 40000 subscriber less seems a lot. But even with DM accounts, it is just 4 Million dollar a year. Which is not much for WotC.

40,000 subscribers so far.

A hell of a bell weather for lost movie ticket sales in March.

 

[Reynard]

Yes, but the CC maneuver means that the OGL isn't going to be messed with now, due to a lack of motivation.

I know you have asserted this in multiple threads, and I understand your reasoning, but the fact that they have yet to legally ensured the OGL remains irrevocable forever suggests it isn't as clear cut as that. Not revising OGL 1.0 in this way strongly suggests they are holding an option in reserve to try to nuke it again.

 

[Parmandur]

I know you have asserted this in multiple threads, and I understand your reasoning, but the fact that they have yet to legally ensured the OGL remains irrevocable forever suggests it isn't as clear cut as that. Not revising OGL 1.0 in this way strongly suggests they are holding an option in reserve to try to nuke it again.

Legally, the problem is that if they revise it, nothing released under 1.0a would be covered by 1.0b.

 

[RareBreed]

I know you have asserted this in multiple threads, and I understand your reasoning, but the fact that they have yet to legally ensured the OGL remains irrevocable forever suggests it isn't as clear cut as that. Not revising OGL 1.0 in this way strongly suggests they are holding an option in reserve to try to nuke it again.

I have been wondering about this too. They just said they wouldn't touch it, which I take that to mean as they won't alter it...at all.

Which means, it's still revocable. I am not sure how putting it under the CC-BY affects that though.