It is time to forgive WOTC and get back onboard.

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
You forgive people. PEOPLE need your forgiveness.

Corporations. Brands. Conglomerates. These are not people. They do not need your forgiveness. Go buy their product if you're happy with them. Don't if you're not.

If someone does not want to buy the product, they are under no obligation to do so, and literally any reason is valid. Not buying the product doesn't turn someone into a spiteful person. If it's bad vibes, it's bad vibes, it's fine.
DING! You are correct, sir!

Companies are inanimate objects. They do not need forgiveness, they do not need blame, they do not need a high five, they do not need your trust.

Deal with the people inside the company. They are the ones who can do things to you and for whom you can talk to, argue with, forgive or blame.
 

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mellored

Legend
Forgive (personal): I will not waste my energy being angry, especially when I can waste it playing

Forgive (corporate): i will not boycott the movie or the one dnd over OGL*
*they still need to be good products though

Don't trust: I won't make content for 1dnd unless it says "irrevocable"*
*creative commons has this.
 

ECMO3

Hero
We are talking about WOTC like it is a monolithic living being. WOTC does not have feelings, it can not use logic, it as an entity that doesn't even really make statements. It is people doing those things, and it includes both good and bad people and to me those good people are part of our community and need our support. Those good people at WOTC arguably saved the game itself and the game is still as fun to play as it was a month ago.

The way WOTC went about pushing the OGL 1.1 was underhanded, the desire to do it in the first place represented a break in trust and a disregard for promises made. Those people caused a lot of stress and we rightly feel betrayed. It got worse as the first "apology" was not an apology at all and was gaslighting, the second apology no one trusted/believed because of the first. It is people doing these things. Bad people. I don't factually know who they are, but many here have speculated.

But Kyle Brink said he would listen to us, he said he would consider our feedback, while we were saying "they are not even going to read the feedback" and talking about their "real motivation" (which probably was the real motivation of some). At the end of the day though "WOTC" as an organization, with Kyle acting as "the face" did exactly what Kyle said they would do. To me that matters.

Sorry if I stirred up so much controversy, and certainly people need to make their own decisions. For me at the end of the day WOTC did not do anything to OGL 1.0a and they did deliver on what was promised.
 

Reynard

Legend
Supporter
The more I think about it, the more offensive the idea is that we need to "get back on board."

No. Hell no. they broke trust in a way that is unforgettable, even if you might consider it forgivable, and I absolutely do not have to get "on board" and give them money for canceling their stupid, evil plan.
 

Jadeite

Hero
For me at the end of the day WOTC did not do anything to OGL 1.0a and they did deliver on what was promised.
Sadly, that's not the case. They stated that they had the authority to deauthorize it. Yesterday they stated that they won't, not that they can't. Putting the 5.1 SRD under CC alleviated some of those fears, but they could still try, theoretically, to stop 3.5 reliant material from being published.
They eroded people's faith in the OGL. And in WotC.
That's why I'm looking forward to the ORC.
 



DDB post from Kyle Brink today:

1. Not revoking 1.0a

2. Releasing entire 5E SRD on creative commons

"This Creative Commons license makes the content freely available for any use. We don't control that license and cannot alter or revoke it. It's open and irrevocable in a way that doesn't require you to take our word for it. And its openness means there's no need for a VTT policy. Placing the SRD under a Creative Commons license is a one-way door. There's no going back."

This is what we wanted and it represents a clear reversal from WOTC along with a mea culpa. Putting the SRD under CC is one heck of a show of good faith. I asked for that in the survey, as presumably others did, but I am surprised they did it.

Going forward IMO WOTC can do what they want with ONE. Obviously I would like that to be open as well, but at the end of the day it is up to them and putting a new game under a closed license does not represent the same sort of break in trust that putting 5E under it would have been.
I appreciate your thoughts but this is the wrong crowd. Many people don’t know how to not be angry. They hate WoTC for making money. They hate them for wanting to make more money. They hate them for making products that don’t appeal to them. The list is endless.

For me no forgiveness is necessary. I never trusted WoTC. I didn’t have to. We have a business relationship. When they make something I like, and I can afford it, I may buy it.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
I've known a few of victims of abuse. Holding a grudge only hurt them, even when they where at a distance of years apart. You can both forgive and move on.

So, this isn't an appropriate analogy. Personal abuse, and "the company started on a business change I didn't like" are NOT THE SAME. What happened with WotC is NOT like when your spouse beats you up. It is NOT like your parents constantly degrading you. It is NOT like someone trying to have sexual relations with you when you don't want them.

The analogy is an offense to abuse survivors, please don't make it.

In addition - the route to a healthy future is different for each abuse survivor. Please do not prescribe one mode (forgiveness) for all.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
As someone upthread said - I don't have a personal relationship with WotC. I have a consumer relationship with them.

And WotC hasn't been my sole gaming provider since the 80s. I have never been "on board" as a purist.

They considered a business move I thought was a bad idea, unfair, and ethically dicey. They were convinced not to take it. So, I have no issue continuing my consumer relationship. When I like what they're producing, I'll buy it, when not, I won't.
 

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