It is time to forgive WOTC and get back onboard.

[Bix and Box]

I just can't get that worked up over something that didn't happen when there are companies actually doing horrible things.

"Your honor, sure my client committed assault. But there are other people out there committing murder! How can you fault him, in the light of that greater evil?"

 

[UngeheuerLich]

This is where we depart. I can buy things from the company without forgiving it for what was done. It's going to take significantly more for me to forgive them for this. And I will never, ever trust them.

I don't know if we depart that much. I don't think of WotC as an entity that can earn or lose trust as a whole. I do trust the designers. I don't trust the suits.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

"Your honor, the police stopped my client from murdering his wife. So no crime was committed. He ended up doing nothing, and nothing actually changed."

While the analogies become ever more more worrisome and hyperbolic, there is a difference beween murder and attempted murder and just threatening to murder someone.

 

[Maxperson]

I don't know of we depart that much. I don't think of WotC as an entity that can earn or lose trust as a whole. I do trust the designers. I don't trust the suits.

It's the suits that are the corporation, not the designers.

Even if all the suits who initiated this fiasco leave the company, suits tend to be similarly minded people, so new suits will be just as capable of something like this as the ones there now.

 

[Jer]

How do you "forgive" a company? It feels like the framing here is wrong.

I could potentially forgive the people who made the decisions that blew everything up if they were asking me for it. But they aren't and they won't. I don't even know who those people are, and it's not like they've committed to not make another terrible decision to blow everything up again, which I consider an important element of who I forgive and who I don't personally.

I have a transactional relationship with Hasbro the company not a personal one. They make things, I buy things. There are lots of reasons I might choose to not buy things from them, and in the past month they created a new one and then walked it back. So I'll continue to buy things from them if they make things I want to buy up until they make another boneheaded decision that makes me feel that I need to stop buying from them. But I wouldn't call that "forgiveness" - that's just commerce.

Forgiving a company for making a terrible decision feels a bit like forgiving a bear that messed up my campsite. I mean I guess I could do it but the bear doesn't care and will do it again if they can get away with it. The only one who might get something out of the act of forgiveness here is me, and that is probably wrapped up more in how an individual processes anger than anything else.

 

[Sacrosanct]

There was a phrase I heard years ago that I really like.

"Forgiveness isn't about letting them off the hook. Forgiveness is about no longer allowing them to have the power to affect your emotions."

What's the other phrase? "You can't have redemption without repentance?" Something like that.

As a 3PP, I'm glad they backtracked. I really am. I don't think they had to if they didn't really want to (see other various posts I've made on the topic re: the importance of branding, how most gamers aren't on forums, etc.). But I'm glad they did.

But...

And that's a big but, trust is important. Before going back, I'd need 2 things: a big carrot, and protection/peace of mind they couldn't do it again. As a 3PP, I don't see myself using the OGL 2.0 going forward. Who knows what the future looks like. But with the move to CC, I can assure you that future products won't be using the OGL 1.0(a). Why? The CC offers me protection and pretty much the same thing I had before. I never used others' Open content anyway, so it doesn't impact me.

 

[Aldarc]

There was a phrase I heard years ago that I really like.

"Forgiveness isn't about letting them off the hook. Forgiveness is about no longer allowing them to have the power to affect your emotions."

What's the other phrase? "You can't have redemption without repentance?" Something like that.

As a 3PP, I'm glad they backtracked. I really am. I don't think they had to if they didn't really want to (see other various posts I've made on the topic re: the importance of branding, how most gamers aren't on forums, etc.). But I'm glad they did.

But...

And that's a big but, trust is important. Before going back, I'd need 2 things: a big carrot, and protection/peace of mind they couldn't do it again. As a 3PP, I don't see myself using the OGL 2.0 going forward. Who knows what the future looks like. But with the move to CC, I can assure you that future products won't be using the OGL 1.0(a). Why? The CC offers me protection and pretty much the same thing I had before. I never used others' Open content anyway, so it doesn't impact me.

Yeah, regardless of whether or not WotC backtracked or opened things up even more, damage has still been done and not everyone will be eager to return to WotC's OGL harbor.

 

[Jer]

Yeah, regardless of whether or not WotC backtracked or opened things up even more, damage has still been done and not everyone will be eager to return to WotC's OGL harbor.

Ironically they probably have destroyed the OGL going forward faster and more completely than if they had gone through with their plans, which likely would have been a prolonged event full of potential litigation. It's a more subtle destruction, but the people who currently publish using it are going to get off of it now and not many new works are likely to be released under it.

 

[Imaro]

If a close friend of yours tries to shoot you and misses, then says they are really sorry and sells their gun, nothing has actually changed. You are alive and unharmed. He no longer has the gun. Are you just going to immediately forgive your friend because he got rid of the gun?

I don't agree with the analogy or the hyperbole around it. The OGL 1.0a being revoked is in no way comparable to someone trying to murder me. If a friend tried to take advantage of me (say trick me out of some money) and I protested his actions and he relented and gave me the money back and apologized... yeah I'd probably forgive him.

 

[Imaro]

"Your honor, the police stopped my client from murdering his wife. So no crime was committed. He ended up doing nothing, and nothing actually changed."

Can we please stop equating revoking the OGL with murder... seriously they aren't comparable and it actually makes your position, in my eyes, seem even more overblown.