Item Creation Caster Level

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

You're correct that the published DMG does say they are minimums.

No, he's not, and dcollins isn't either.

That text was *errataed*. That means it no longer officially exists in the DMG. To quote it as if it exists is incorrect.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Thanks for the backup Patryn and Staffan!

Rystil out.

 

[dcollins]

And I might put some credence in the errata if it didn't say "The last two sentences in the section on Caster Level are ambiguous and potentially misleading", because they're not, they're very clear and well-structured. I think this errata again winds up contradicting other parts of the rules (see under armor and weapons), and the fact that there are no rules provided for pricing variable caster levels of Wondrous Items (as there are for potions/scrolls/wands).

It's not that Monte messed up, because all signs are he didn't write that part of the DMG (see SKR's comments, quoted from ENWorld, on referred website above).

My best guess is that there are competing factions in the R&D group about how this should work, and each side keeps over-writing and contradicting the other. I'm with Skip Williams and the most recent Rules of the Game (and the as-published 3.0 and 3.5 DMG), it's the most coherent reading.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Except that the errata is official, no matter what you want it to say. Anything in the errata is given precedence over whatever the main text says, period. Now there are sometimes mistakes in the errata, like when they copied John Cooper's list for MM3 and screwed up the death giant, but this was unambiguous errata that clearly stated the intention, which has been the intention of every designer who has spoken out on the issue. Oh and I checked your website, but rather than a list of quotes tracking the contradictory statements, you instead have an incredibly arrogant argument that assumes you are correct from the get-go and continues with why you should be right and the designers, including Monte and Sean as well as whoever errataed it, should be wrong. Sounds like for some odd reason you really like this incorrect ruling.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

and the fact that there are no rules provided for pricing variable caster levels of Wondrous Items (as there are for potions/scrolls/wands).

Because, generally, there's no really effective difference.* And, in the cases where there is a difference, the item roughly follows the formulae presented in the DMG for pricing magical items.

* - As in, most wondrous items are caster level agnostic. A Belt of Giant's Strength +4 at CL 5 (the default) is not really any different than the same belt at CL 10. The only time the CL matters is when a targeted dispel is cast against the item. Is that really a big enough change to warrant a price increase? I don't think so.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I'd chalk that down to the fact that he intended the text to work as he originally stated, but then some rules-lawyer pointed out that there were subtle flaws in the wording of the text that caused the erroneous interpretation in a manner sufficiently thorough to convince him that the mistake needed fixing, and then the 3.5 crowd didn't fix it.

Subtle flaws?

The unerrata'd text in the 3E and 3.5 DMGs says pretty much the opposite of what he says.

It's not a subtle flaw - he says "Caster determines caster level", the DMG says "Caster level is determined by the item".

It's not until the errata are applied that the DMG says anything remotely similar to what Monte suggests.

-Hyp.

 

[beaver1024]

So which is it? Is Skip's errata to the DMG's errata official? Remember that the rules of the game article came out after the errata to the DMG?

 

[Hypersmurf]

So which is it? Is Skip's errata to the DMG's errata official? Remember that the rules of the game article came out after the errata to the DMG?

But RotG is not errata. Where RotG and the actual rules of the game conflict, the Primary Source rule means the the rules of the game trump the Rules of the Game.

-Hyp.

 

[Corsair]

Ironic that the "Rules of the Game" articles don't always follow the rules of the game, and often times introduce Skip's own house rules.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I think that the real deciding factor here is going to come down to
"which rule makes for a stupid or crap result"

IMO, the answer is "only 17th level casters being able to create an item that will sell for 500gp" is the crap result, therefore caster level is not a prerequisite.