items that are just better (aka power creep)

[Eccles]

In my mind, if an item is just 'better', more people will pick it up.

Which points the finger at Acrobat's Boots and Dwarven Armour, both of which are in the PHB.

I have 2 parties which have been almost taken over by Acrobat's Boots!

 

[Nytmare]

I just noticed the Cannith Goggle disparity this morning as I was going over my party's new characters. I'm not really familiar with magic item power levels yet, but given that the following items are in that same range, I'm thinking that they fall at least in the realm of a level 5 or 6 item, if not 7 (assuming that the Crown of Doors isn't underpowered).

Crown of Doors - level 6
+2 to perception to notice secret doors

Cat Paws - level 5
+2 to athletic checks - Daily that lets you climb at your base speed

Boots of Stealth - Level 3
+2 to stealth checks - no daily

 

[Bagpuss]

Also, I think the Sacrificial Weapon is dangerously close to being flat-out worse than a plain magic weapon, because I really think weakening your target for a round is hardly ever going to actually be worth the cost.

I think it might be worth it for a thrown dagger for a character that sits at the back much of the time. My cleric rarely runs out of healing surges, but making a major villain weakened would be worth one.

 

[evilbob]

There is only so much gradation you can have with 30 levels. Sure an item is strictly better but is it 1 levels worth better

Oh, I completely agree with you. But if it's a choice between an item with no ability and an item with an ability, the item with the ability is still strictly better, and worth noting (even if the ability is crappy).

 

[webrunner]

In my mind, if an item is just 'better', more people will pick it up.

Which points the finger at Acrobat's Boots and Dwarven Armour, both of which are in the PHB.

I have 2 parties which have been almost taken over by Acrobat's Boots!

As someone who has run some online games and had to deal with balance issues, I have to chime in and note that popularity is often not an indication of balance issues. The popularity of an item depends mostly on word of mouth inside a largely isolated group. On a badly-balanced IRC bot RPG I ran once, I noticed two separate groups had completely different opinions on the balance of two of the classes: One of them stocked up on Ninjas with death blades and avoided angels, and the other felt ninjas to be worthless and stocked up on angels. If one player notices something that works for them then that view tends to virally spread out to other players who haven't made a decision one way or the other.

 

[Nytmare]

Oh, I completely agree with you. But if it's a choice between an item with no ability and an item with an ability, the item with the ability is still strictly better, and worth noting (even if the ability is crappy).

Exactly, and furthermore, just as there should be benchmarks in place saying how powerful an item should be before it hits a certain level, there should also be a mark denoting the maximum power of that level. You're not going to be able to get a smooth progression and you're better off with holes in the spectrum.

Adding a once an ability to an item that has a once a day "cast light" ability isn't really worth a full level, but that doesn't mean that they should make every magic item in the PHB obsolete by reprinting them in Dragon with that added ability.

 

[Hazard_53188]

- Summoned armor, level 6/11/16/etc., AV p53; compared to: Magic armor, level 6/11/16/etc., PHB p230. Summoned armor has an additional (minor at-will) effect for no additional cost. Both can be applied to any type of +2 or higher armor.

- Imposter's chain, scale, or plate armor, level 6/11/16/etc., AV p46; compared to: Magic chain, scale, or plate armor, level 6/11/16/etc., PHB p230. Like Summoned armor but only for chain, scale, or plate.

- Dynamic melee weapon, level 6/11/16/etc., AV p68; compared to: Magic melee weapon, level 6/11/16/etc., PHB 235. Same bonuses but the dynamic has a slight advantage with its extra power.

- Sacrificial melee weapon, level 6/11/16/etc., AV p68; compared to: Magic melee weapon, level 6/11/16/etc., PHB 235. Same as above.

Basic Magic armors and weapons do have an advantage over these same priced, small ability items.

That advantage is that they can be enchanted with a better effect later. They could be used as a stepping stone item that allow you to have the highest plus you can afford now and a better effect later.

 

[Solodan]

I've got a feeling that Cannith Goggles are a misprint. It was probably intended to be level 1X or something. In the exact same Dragon 365, page 59, you'll see Ruby Lenses. Same property bonus (+2 perception) and a minor daily power. The daily power is slightly better on the ruby lenses, so it makes think that Cannith goggles may have been level 10-12 items.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the correct cannith goggles in the Eberron book this summer with a much higher level.

The rest of the items don't seem that much of a power creep. Sure, the level 6 items are a bit, but that was needed. There should be properties or dailies that are small enough to make a vanilla +X item interesting. It really is poor that you'll trade a +2 item of awesomeness for a +3 vanilla item. It is a flaw in the "fun" of the system.

Also, A level 1/6/11 etc item should be less powerful than a level 6/11/ etc item. One item can simply be upgraded, and that is a feature that is worth some "points" in terms of item power.

Other stuff that you mention are corner cases - reading languages isn't even used by some DM's (and LFR, to be honest)

So yes, there is some power creep, but honestly, I don't see it. I also consider AV to the be the baseline, as there simply was not enough magic items in the core PHB to establish a feel for what is strong/weak at certain levels.

 

[Ibixat]

A lot of "better" items are marginal...
then you have these two pairs of boots

Earthstriders - level 14
Power (Daily Teleportation): Move Action. Teleport 5 squares as long as a path along the ground exists to your destination. This power does not allow you to cross open air (including pits or chasms).


Fireburst Boots - level 14
Power (Daily Arcane, Fire, Teleportation): Move Action. Teleport 6 squares. All creatures within 1 square of you before you teleport take 2d8 fire damage.

I guess the balance is that the fireburst teleport damage will hit allies.

But I'd still take them over the earthstriders ANY day.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I think stuff like the level 1/6/11/16/21/26 items might be more powerful, but their abilities are so minor that no one would bother buying the items if he would have to choose between higher level items. An armor you can get from an extra-dimensional place is great, but if you can alternative have an armor that allows you to gain hit points as if you had spend a healing surge, you will probably prefer that one. (And you will probably be able to make many such comparisons.)