D&D 5E It's official, WOTC hates Rangers (Tasha's version of Favored Foe is GARBAGE)

[Paul Farquhar]

There are antagonists in the wilderness, just like everywhere else.

If there are intelligent beings there, it's not wilderness.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

If there are intelligent beings there, it's not wilderness.

That’s utter nonsense.

So, a hermit in the forest makes the forest not wilderness?

You gotta be kidding.

 

[Asisreo]

If there are intelligent beings there, it's not wilderness.

Wouldn't that mean as soon as the players walk into the area, its no longer wilderness?

 

[CleverNickName]

Wouldn't that mean as soon as the players walk into the area, its no longer wilderness?

Not necessarily. It's fashionable for players to dump their Intelligence these days.

 

[Lanefan]

That sounds boring. Day 117. Another roll for rain....

So the party know if they are going to get wet or not. Big deal.

As a real-life weather geek I rather suspect I'd not have much fun in your game...

The wilderness has no agency. It is not an antagonist. Stories without an antagonist are meaningless and boring.

Who says the wilderness has no agency? There's a lineup of Nature Clerics (and their deities!) waiting over there to debate this with you; good luck winning that one!

Or, as shown by Saruman chucking a snowstorm at the Fellowship in the Misty Mountains, who says the wilderness is acting under its own control?

 

[Chaosmancer]

Survival stories are boring.

I've never come across one I've found remotely interesting.

Then I say that you have likely not run across an interesting one, rather than saying they are all boring. I know I've run across a few that were engaging when I read them.

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You can do both, though. You admitted in your pre-level 8 explanation that your 4d8+9=27 damage is still under the 29.5 non-feat Wolf Spider Ranger. It isn't until level 8 or a V-human that you claimed that the Feat Hunter does more damage, but I showed that if the Beastmaster Ranger takes the feat where your Hunter takes the +1, the Ranger has once again outdamaged the Hunter and will continue to do so onward. From levels 3-20, the beastmaster does more damage.

Sigh, okay, I'll grant that after three attempts you finally found a way for the Beastmaster to out-damage the hunter.

So, the current standing is Spider attacks for 14.5 and the ranger attacks twice for 2d8+8 (17) total 31.5 against the ranger attacking three times for 4d8+12 total 30. Bog standard with nothing else you have eeked ahead.

Now we both cast Hex.

Your spider is still dealing 14.5, and you end up dealing 24 for 38.5.
I go up to 40.5.

And I can keep growing this gap fairly easily. A spell like Crusader's Mantle, some magical swords. And you might say I'm cheating by this point, but you wanted to make a claim for 3 thru 20, and there is an aspect to this that is important.

For every Ranger except the beastmaster, you can buff the ranger and buff your entire build. For the beastmaster you need to buff the Ranger and the Beast, and there are simply fewer ways to buff a beast.

I'll grant that the damage wasn't as bad as I thought, especially with that errata I did not know about, that helps a lot. But, it is purely reliant on you having a beast that does poison damage. And, while Fiends, Undead, Constructs, and others might be fairly specific, it is still 95 monsters in the MM alone 192 monsters across the three major monster books. That is more than are resistant to Cold and Fire combined. That is a rather significant downside.

If I'm fighting an Orc Warchief, I'm not having my beast engage it in combat. You're right that Brute-type enemies are effective against the Poisonous Snake, so I'd just have them attack other characters and use my own strength against the brutes, or let better equipped Party Members like the Bard or Sorcerer handle it.

I can't accurately formulate a plan based on a hypothetical, but its times like these where common sense precedes all else in battle. If someone says that using your 2d6 greatsword isn't working because of immunity, its time to bring out your +1 dagger, even if it isn't as strong generally. Adaptation in combat is more important than any class feature, race, spell, or number on your stat sheet.

I agree with adapting, but you have a melee creature who is never going to be able to take on even near mid-level threats.

I mean, by level 10 you'd expect to not have much trouble with the CR 4 warlord, but he can still kill the snake in two rounds. By level 20, granted your AC is decently high by that point, but hp wise... three rounds before a CR 4 creature kills your snake.

A proper "minion" at that level might be something like might be an Erinyes who the snake can barely touch and who can kill it in 4 attacks which is almost a single round of combat for it (they make three attacks a turn)

Yes, you can say that you just won't send it against enemies that are too powerful, but after a while, all the enemies are too powerful, and your snake is only engaging with cannon fodder who really aren't dangerous threats. And, remember, every subclass ability you have is tied to commanding your snake to do something. Which means if you decide to "go in yourself" and hold the snake back... you've turned off your subclass.

Speak With Animals isn't that big of a deal, especially past level 5, but if you do want to preserve Spell Slots as much as possible, you can have the animal simply make a certain noise if there are hostiles wherever it was sent scouting.

Well, "are there hostiles in this hostile territory" is kind of a duh moment. What you would end up doing is basically playing 20 questions with your pet, Mr. Ed style.

Which hey, you can do, but I'll note it is one of the least efficient scouting styles I have ever heard about.

If your companion doesn't have a base 13 AC, you can either give them barkskin or you can find them barding. If your companion is low on health, you can cast spells like Healing Spirit to bring their health back up. If you have excess potions of healing that nobody is using, use em on your companion. There's quite a few ways to increase the defensive abilities of the beast. Even still, you if it goes down, you should be able to heal it back up again.

Barding might work, I know there is a debate about it, but the rest of what you are saying? I'm hearing "cast spells and spend resources to protect the weak point I chose to take on"

Barkskin is taking my concentration and a 2nd level spell slot, that is a lot of resources put towards maybe keeping the beast alive. If I have healing spirit... I'd rather put it on the fighter

It doesn't have to be optimal but you shouldn't judge a book by its cover and you certainly shouldn't criticize a class when played incompetently. Its noone's fault but the player if they play against the design structure of a class for their own fantasy. I'm not saying its wrong for a player to want a certain companion and to have it be extremely combat competent even if it isn't, but expecting the book to conform to all your fantasies at once isn't necessarily realistic. Don't mistake what I'm saying, I'd absolutely love more subclass options for companion-type rangers but I don't want to see the beastmaster misrepresented.

If a player wants to have a hyper-efficient combat falcon, that's absolutely justified. A DM could just reskin the Pteradon as a falcon and give it wisdom equal to a hawk, keen sight, and make it tiny.

And why are you assuming I'm judging it by an incompetent player? You seem to think that "if they had played it the right way, they would have had fun." But that is a very bold position to take, with no evidence.

And what is the design structure of the Beast Master? You don't seem to think it is combat at all, so scouting?

Compare it to the Chain Warlock, another "pet subclass" option who is built for scouting. Level 3 they get an invisible, flying scout whose eyes they can see through and can speak common to communicate. If they die it is an hour ritual to replace them.

That is such a superior scouting option, I can't even explain it. And they are decent in combat by giving the help action.

But, considering how many combat abilities the Beastmaster gives it is clear to me that the design intent was to use them in combat. And it is equally clear that while there are a very few options that can deal enough damamge to do decently, they are nothing but a burden by mid-levels of play.

 

[Minigiant]

So coming back to the Beast Spirits, I was thinking to steal the ideas and states from the 4e ranger and add in 5e components.

• Diver Beast Spirit
  • AC 14 (natural armor)​
  • HD D8​
  • Speed 30ft swim 40ft​
  • STR 16 DEX 14 CON 14 INT 2 WIS 14 CHA 11​
  • Saving Throws DEX +4 CON +4 WIS +4​
  • Skills: Athletics +4 Perception +4​
  • Senses: Darkvision 60ft Passive Perception 14​
  • Amphibious​
  • Primal Rebirth​
  • Ready Companion​
  • Thrash Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 1d8 + 3 piercing damage and the target is grappled (escape DC 13)​
• Guardian Beast Spirit
  • AC 15 (natural armor)​
  • HD D10​
  • Speed 40ft climb 30ft​
  • STR 16 DEX 12 CON 16 INT 2 WIS 12 CHA 11​
  • Saving Throws DEX +5 CON +5 WIS +3​
  • Skills: Athletics +5​
  • Senses: Darkvision 60ft Passive Perception 13​
  • Primal Rebirth​
  • Ready Companion​
  • Maul Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 1d6 + 3 slashing damage.​
• Hunter Beast Spirit
  • AC 12​
  • HD D8​
  • Speed 40ft​
  • STR 14 DEX 14 CON 14 INT 2 WIS 14 CHA 11​
  • Saving Throws DEX +4 CON +4 WIS +4​
  • Skills: Athletics +4 Perception +4​
  • Senses: Darkvision 60ft Passive Perception 14​
  • Keen Smell and Hearing​
  • Pack Tactics​
  • Primal Rebirth​
  • Ready Companion​
  • Chomp Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 1d6 + 2 piercing damage.​
• Runner Beast Spirit
  • AC 10​
  • HD D8​
  • Speed 60ft​
  • STR 16 DEX 10 CON 12 INT 2 WIS 14 CHA 11​
  • Saving Throws DEX +2 CON +3 WIS +4​
  • Skills: Athletics +2​
  • Senses: Darkvision 60ft Passive Perception 14​
  • Trampling Charge​
  • Primal Rebirth​
  • Ready Companion​
  • Stomp Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 2d4 + 3 bludgeoning damage.​
• Stalker Beast Spirit
  • AC 13​
  • HD D8​
  • Speed 40ft​
  • STR 12 DEX 16 CON 14 INT 2 WIS 14 CHA 11​
  • Saving Throws DEX +5 CON +4 WIS +4​
  • Skills: Perception +4 Stealth +5​
  • Senses: Darkvision 60ft Passive Perception 14​
  • Pounce​
  • Primal Rebirth​
  • Ready Companion​
  • Multiattack​
  • Crunch Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 1d6 + 3 piercing damage.​
  • Rend Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 1d4 + 3 piercing damage.​
• Watcher Beast Spirit
  • AC 13​
  • HD D6​
  • Speed 10 ft fly 60ft​
  • STR 6 DEX 16 CON 13 INT 2 WIS 14 CHA 11​
  • Saving Throws DEX +4 CON +4 WIS +4​
  • Skills: Perception +4 Stealth +6​
  • Senses: Darkvision 60ft Passive Perception 14​
  • Keen Sight​
  • Flyby​
  • Primal Rebirth​
  • Ready Companion​
  • Shred Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 1d4 + 3 slashing damage.​

You got ya swimmy tank, ya climby tank, a mount, ya ultity flier, a damage dealer, and a mix.

 

[Asisreo]

So, the current standing is Spider attacks for 14.5 and the ranger attacks twice for 2d8+8 (17) total 31.5 against the ranger attacking three times for 4d8+12 total 30. Bog standard with nothing else you have eeked ahead.

Now we both cast Hex.

Your spider is still dealing 14.5, and you end up dealing 24 for 38.5.
I go up to 40.5.

Wait...when are you getting hex?

Its very interesting that you have hex, but you also still have +4 to your main stat and Dual Wielding. This means you're at level 12, when you get your next ASI.

This is important because the beastmaster's companion just got 2 more improvements to across levels 9-12 that will improve its damage by quite alot.

Your proficiency bonus increases, which means your companion's damage increases. At level 9, the wolf spider does 15.5 damage now. But it also attacks twice when used as an action, so the spider now does 31 damage in a turn, by itself. Add in the likely 2d8+10=19 damage from the Ranger, and they're doing a total of 50 damage a turn. Yes, they took the basic +1 rather than any feat.

For every Ranger except the beastmaster, you can buff the ranger and buff your entire build. For the beastmaster you need to buff the Ranger and the Beast, and there are simply fewer ways to buff a beast.

There aren't as many Ranger buffs as you think. Many of their spells resemble smites more than buffs despite the concentration. The only really relevant one would be Hunter's Mark, a couple of defensive spells, and spells like Longstrider and Jump.

And, while Fiends, Undead, Constructs, and others might be fairly specific, it is still 95 monsters in the MM alone 192 monsters across the three major monster books. That is more than are resistant to Cold and Fire combined. That is a rather significant downside.

What I'm trying to say is that this statistic would be relevant if it was expected that a party encounters every creature exactly once over the course of a campaign.

This is not how campaigns are ordinarily structured. Even in a game such as Curse of Strahd, there's a quite alot of beasts and humanoids that are hostile to the party.

I mean, by level 10 you'd expect to not have much trouble with the CR 4 warlord, but he can still kill the snake in two rounds. By level 20, granted your AC is decently high by that point, but hp wise... three rounds before a CR 4 creature kills your snake.

You mean the Orc Warchief. I was about to say, the Warlord is CR 12.

By level 20, a beastmaster should have spells like Stoneskin, Protection from Energy, Protection from Poison, and Cure Wounds while having the Inspiring Leader Feat and Magic Initiate Protection from Good and Evil. They should also have a couple of healer's kits. Even if the beast goes down, that doesn't mean its dead. If you stabilize it, you can wait until the fight is over and get into seriously healing it.

Even if the Ranger happens to lose their companion first combat, Rangers get their primary benefits from their core class rather than their subclass. Its where they get their spellcasting, fighting style, extra attack, etc. A core Ranger is fairly close to a subclass Ranger in terms of power. Even the Hunter. If the Hunter chose Colossus Slayer, Steel Will, and Whirlwind Attack, you won't get much from your subclass if the DM loves having ranged medium creatures without a frighten ability.

A proper "minion" at that level might be something like might be an Erinyes who the snake can barely touch and who can kill it in 4 attacks which is almost a single round of combat for it (they make three attacks a turn)

Interesting that you chose Erinyes. Very interesting indeed.

Let me start in the general case. At level 20, the Ranger can cast StoneSkin on himself and share it with his beast to give both of them resistance to nonmagical BPS damage.

If the enemy happens to rely on common elemental damage, the Ranger can use Protection from Energy to give his companion resistance to the relevant damage type.

For the Erinyes, they actually have magical weapons so Stoneskin won't work. What will work, though, is Protection from Poison since Erinyes usually rely on poison damage to deal their damage.

Yes, you can say that you just won't send it against enemies that are too powerful, but after a while, all the enemies are too powerful, and your snake is only engaging with cannon fodder who really aren't dangerous threats. And, remember, every subclass ability you have is tied to commanding your snake to do something. Which means if you decide to "go in yourself" and hold the snake back... you've turned off your subclass.

You just get better tools to prevent the beast from dying.

Well, "are there hostiles in this hostile territory" is kind of a duh moment. What you would end up doing is basically playing 20 questions with your pet, Mr. Ed style.

I mean, if the companion can sneak into a room and return with enemy information (squeak for every enemy), the party probably has more info than they did before.

Barkskin is taking my concentration and a 2nd level spell slot, that is a lot of resources put towards maybe keeping the beast alive. If I have healing spirit... I'd rather put it on the fighter

Its not that expensive all things considered. You have the spell slot and your concentration is free. Might as well do something with it. But a portion of creatures don't need Barkskin anyways.

And why are you assuming I'm judging it by an incompetent player? You seem to think that "if they had played it the right way, they would have had fun." But that is a very bold position to take, with no evidence.

No, I just think that if someone hasn't played a class at least in a functional manner, they shouldn't tell others that its a bad class. They can say that its hard, but if your understanding isn't deep enough for the class, why should you opine?

And what is the design structure of the Beast Master? You don't seem to think it is combat at all, so scouting?

Compare it to the Chain Warlock, another "pet subclass" option who is built for scouting. Level 3 they get an invisible, flying scout whose eyes they can see through and can speak common to communicate.

Imps and Quasits are decent scouts but they don't have as good actual stealth, which is important for a scout. Even with invisibility, all that means is that your Imp can take the Hide action anywhere, but a Wolf Spider gets +9 to stealth from the get-go so is more reliable to stay out of sight.

Also, the other part of scouting is actually seeing things, in which alot of the Beastmaster's companions can do better than even Rogues with expertise, let alone imps, quasits, pixies, and psuedodragons.

That is such a superior scouting option, I can't even explain it. And they are decent in combat by giving the help action.

But, considering how many combat abilities the Beastmaster gives it is clear to me that the design intent was to use them in combat. And it is equally clear that while there are a very few options that can deal enough damamge to do decently, they are nothing but a burden by mid-levels of play.

Actually, I think Beastmasters are even better as Skill Monkeys/scouts than even combat. They're just good at those, too.

They have great senses like darkvision and blindsight while also having good movement options in the forms of Flight, Climbing, and Burrowing. They usually have keen senses which puts their already bolstered Passive Perception up to +5, meaning they'll know danger pretty reliably. Their stealth is good and they can thrive in completely dark environments where many other creatures struggle (darkvision rogue gets -5 perception, blindsight spider does not).

Plus, they're pretty innocuous. No matter what detection spell the enemy puts on them, they're just a beast. No dispel magic can affect them and they could easily be ignored by the enemy even if it is discovered.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Wait...when are you getting hex?

Huh? Why the heck did I type that? I meant Hunter's Mark. Most have had my warlock on the brain. Apologies.

There aren't as many Ranger buffs as you think. Many of their spells resemble smites more than buffs despite the concentration. The only really relevant one would be Hunter's Mark, a couple of defensive spells, and spells like Longstrider and Jump.

You misunderstand.

Magic weapons? All of the Ranger's attacks are boosted by that weapon
MAgic armor? All of the ranger's defenses are boosted by that armor
Haste spell? Boon? ect.

A single unit being buffed is much easier to manage that two. You are splitting all of your treasure and resources between both of the units, which is just less effective.

What I'm trying to say is that this statistic would be relevant if it was expected that a party encounters every creature exactly once over the course of a campaign.

This is not how campaigns are ordinarily structured. Even in a game such as Curse of Strahd, there's a quite alot of beasts and humanoids that are hostile to the party.

Yes, I understand that. But fighting Fiends or Undead or Constructs or Elementals more than once over 20 levels of play? Especially since the vast majority of high level enemies are either Fiends or Undead?

I'd say that is relevant.

You mean the Orc Warchief. I was about to say, the Warlord is CR 12.

Yes, it was late and I was typing fast.

By level 20, a beastmaster should have spells like Stoneskin, Protection from Energy, Protection from Poison, and Cure Wounds while having the Inspiring Leader Feat and Magic Initiate Protection from Good and Evil. They should also have a couple of healer's kits. Even if the beast goes down, that doesn't mean its dead. If you stabilize it, you can wait until the fight is over and get into seriously healing it.

Going down your list of spells: Concentration, Concentration, not concentration but only works against poison, spell tax for healing, and Concentration.

The fact that you can spend your action to stabilize it (wasting a turn in preventing death instead of dealing with the enemy) and a 4th and 2nd level slot trying to keep your creature alive doesn't exactly show that they are going to be useful in the fight at that level.

Even if the Ranger happens to lose their companion first combat, Rangers get their primary benefits from their core class rather than their subclass. Its where they get their spellcasting, fighting style, extra attack, etc. A core Ranger is fairly close to a subclass Ranger in terms of power. Even the Hunter. If the Hunter chose Colossus Slayer, Steel Will, and Whirlwind Attack, you won't get much from your subclass if the DM loves having ranged medium creatures without a frighten ability.

There is a fairly large difference between "My DM likes a very specific type of enemy that I am not built to deal with well" compared to "My DM likes playing beyond level 10"

Interesting that you chose Erinyes. Very interesting indeed.

Let me start in the general case. At level 20, the Ranger can cast StoneSkin on himself and share it with his beast to give both of them resistance to nonmagical BPS damage.

If the enemy happens to rely on common elemental damage, the Ranger can use Protection from Energy to give his companion resistance to the relevant damage type.

For the Erinyes, they actually have magical weapons so Stoneskin won't work. What will work, though, is Protection from Poison since Erinyes usually rely on poison damage to deal their damage.

Congrats, you used a spell to potentially let your beast survive a single CR 12 monster for maybe two turns of combat, at level 20.

But, what I'm seeing here is that you are going to be devoting your spell slots to keeping your beast alive, instead of using them to help win the fight. You are pumping a lot of resources into this.

Its not that expensive all things considered. You have the spell slot and your concentration is free. Might as well do something with it. But a portion of creatures don't need Barkskin anyways.

If your concentration is free, you should be using it to affect the fight directly. Silence, Spike Growth, Healing spirit, 2nd level Hail of Thorns, Hunter's Mark. A lot of good options here beyond "make my beasts AC 16" (also, don't know if you remember this, but RAW, if your prof bonus would make their AC higher than 16... it stays 16)

No, I just think that if someone hasn't played a class at least in a functional manner, they shouldn't tell others that its a bad class. They can say that its hard, but if your understanding isn't deep enough for the class, why should you opine?

Right.

"You disagree with me, therefore you must be doing it wrong, and since you don't understand the class you can't have an opinion on it"

That is elitist.

Imps and Quasits are decent scouts but they don't have as good actual stealth, which is important for a scout. Even with invisibility, all that means is that your Imp can take the Hide action anywhere, but a Wolf Spider gets +9 to stealth from the get-go so is more reliable to stay out of sight.

Also, the other part of scouting is actually seeing things, in which alot of the Beastmaster's companions can do better than even Rogues with expertise, let alone imps, quasits, pixies, and psuedodragons.

Imp as an invisible spider? Even if you need to roll (which... why?) they have advantage and a +5 stealth, for an effective +10

And, since the Warlock can look through their eyes and is telepathically communicating, you can both look, giving you advantage on perception checks and using the higher mod between the two of you. Which, assuming proficiency, I think works out to be an effective +9.

Actually, I think Beastmasters are even better as Skill Monkeys/scouts than even combat. They're just good at those, too.

They have great senses like darkvision and blindsight while also having good movement options in the forms of Flight, Climbing, and Burrowing. They usually have keen senses which puts their already bolstered Passive Perception up to +5, meaning they'll know danger pretty reliably. Their stealth is good and they can thrive in completely dark environments where many other creatures struggle (darkvision rogue gets -5 perception, blindsight spider does not).

Plus, they're pretty innocuous. No matter what detection spell the enemy puts on them, they're just a beast. No dispel magic can affect them and they could easily be ignored by the enemy even if it is discovered.

Look, this is clearly going in circles, and I don't see this ending any time soon.

Blindsight spider? That is 10 ft. Sure, if they get right next to something they can know it is there, but how does that help them more than a Rogue with darkvision?

And what about the fact that literally every Beastmaster ability is related to combat?

Can't be dispelled? Sure, but they can be killed and a dog-sized spider is going to be attacked when it is noticed, and since it is scouting and you have no ability to give it commands... it is basically just going to die.

I mean, you realize that a very possible outcome of sending your spider in to scout a location is that it just never comes back, right? You get no information, just "an hour later and no sign of Spider-Bro."

 

[Asisreo]

Huh? Why the heck did I type that? I meant Hunter's Mark. Most have had my warlock on the brain. Apologies.

Its np. Your Hunter does more damage than the Wolf Spider, though it still does less than the Giant Poisonous Snake at level 5 without any buff spells. By level 8, the GPS does 19 damage and the Ranger does 17, that's 36 damage which is still quite even a Hunter's Mark Hunter.

Plus, by level 9, the Beastmaster has their concentration free. If they want to pile on more damage, they can use Conjure Barrage or Conjure Animals.

You misunderstand.

Magic weapons? All of the Ranger's attacks are boosted by that weapon
MAgic armor? All of the ranger's defenses are boosted by that armor
Haste spell? Boon? ect.

A single unit being buffed is much easier to manage that two. You are splitting all of your treasure and resources between both of the units, which is just less effective.

You're also adding extra attunement slots, which are useful.

You can equip things that would naturally make sense for the creature's anatomy. Things like amulets, rings, periapts, robes, mantles, necklaces, and maybe even boots.

And after level 15, if you buff yourself, you also buff your Beast.

Yes, I understand that. But fighting Fiends or Undead or Constructs or Elementals more than once over 20 levels of play? Especially since the vast majority of high level enemies are either Fiends or Undead?

I'd say that is relevant.

Every character has a weak matchup. Paladins aren't amazing against flying enemies. Even with Find Greater Steed, the fact they have to wait until level 13 before they are somewhat effective against flying enemies sucks. Even past then, its not like having to fly on a mount is great since the enemy can just prone the mount or the Paladin.

Going down your list of spells: Concentration, Concentration, not concentration but only works against poison, spell tax for healing, and Concentration.

The fact that you can spend your action to stabilize it (wasting a turn in preventing death instead of dealing with the enemy) and a 4th and 2nd level slot trying to keep your creature alive doesn't exactly show that they are going to be useful in the fight at that level.

You may as well us concentration. Its not that hard to see that a white dragon will probably do cold damage and the beast should be protected against it.

If something is the most effective option in your arsenal at the moment and it costs concentration, then its the most effective option anyways and the concentration is well spent.

You don't see anyone complaining about Hypnotic Pattern's concentration even though it would be cool (and probably broken) if it didn't have it.

Congrats, you used a spell to potentially let your beast survive a single CR 12 monster for maybe two turns of combat, at level 20.

But, what I'm seeing here is that you are going to be devoting your spell slots to keeping your beast alive, instead of using them to help win the fight. You are pumping a lot of resources into this.

I mean, am I not supposed to ever use my resources.

Its like if a wizard used Wish to Ressurect a fallen party member and its like "Oh, you used a 9th level spell? That's quite an expensive resource, you shouldn't have done that."

What should be evaluated isn't that the resource was consumed, but whether the resource's consumption was as good or better than alternatives of the same resource.

If your concentration is free, you should be using it to affect the fight directly. Silence, Spike Growth, Healing spirit, 2nd level Hail of Thorns, Hunter's Mark. A lot of good options here beyond "make my beasts AC 16" (also, don't know if you remember this, but RAW, if your prof bonus would make their AC higher than 16... it stays 16)

Those spells are mostly situational or can be disruptive to your own party. The only 2 exceptions are Healing Spirit and Hunter's Mark. They're okay for lower level play but fall off sharply unless you specifically build around them. Even then, they're basically just par.

Right.

"You disagree with me, therefore you must be doing it wrong, and since you don't understand the class you can't have an opinion on it"

That is elitist.

The fact that you thought beastmaster's damage was bad kinda showed that you hadn't experienced one that can do alot of damage.

You've shown you are critical of a class but you've failed to show that you've experienced these criticisms firsthand in an honest effort. If you said "I played a GPS Ranger and they don't do great damage." Then it would at least show that you at least tried. I could then assess that maybe one of us made a mistake in how the class functions. But as of now, it seems like your criticisms of beastmaster, if not wholly unfounded, are at least exaggerated.

Imp as an invisible spider? Even if you need to roll (which... why?) they have advantage and a +5 stealth, for an effective +10

And, since the Warlock can look through their eyes and is telepathically communicating, you can both look, giving you advantage on perception checks and using the higher mod between the two of you. Which, assuming proficiency, I think works out to be an effective +9.

You don't get advantage on stealth for being invisible. You only get to hide while in an enemy's LoS. An Imp's +5 will always be +5.

That invocation doesn't give you advantage on perception checks, but even if it did, advantage is not an effective flat +5 to an ability check. If anything, its closer to +2.25.

Look, this is clearly going in circles, and I don't see this ending any time soon.

Blindsight spider? That is 10 ft. Sure, if they get right next to something they can know it is there, but how does that help them more than a Rogue with darkvision?

There is more to the beastmaster than the Wolf Spider. Yesterday may have been the Wolf Spider but today it may be the Hawk or the Rat. If you want 60ft blindsight, have the bat be the scout.

And what about the fact that literally every Beastmaster ability is related to combat?

The fact it adds your proficiency bonus to its skills is quite good utility. Plus, the spells a Ranger gets like Beastsense, Locate Animals and Plants, Speak with Animals, Animal Friendship, and Pass without Trace makes a beast's scouting abilities even greater.

Can't be dispelled? Sure, but they can be killed and a dog-sized spider is going to be attacked when it is noticed, and since it is scouting and you have no ability to give it commands... it is basically just going to die.

Just don't use the spider and use a rat or insect to scout. As long as they don't get too close, I doubt the local dragon is going to care that a centipede just entered its lair.

I mean, you realize that a very possible outcome of sending your spider in to scout a location is that it just never comes back, right? You get no information, just "an hour later and no sign of Spider-Bro."

Using spells like Beastsense, Speak with Animals, and Beast Bond helps by alot.