D&D 5E It's official, WOTC hates Rangers (Tasha's version of Favored Foe is GARBAGE)

[Asisreo]

So, if I take the feat instead of the +1, I get 4d8+9 which is 27. If I am a human or wait til level 8, then I can do 4d8+12 which is 30 and back to being higher than the beast.

Why do you not update the Beastmaster in these comparisons? The beastmaster is just as eligible for the same feats as your non-beastmaster Ranger.

If the beastmaster also takes Dual-Wielding, the total damage they do also increases. Its now 2d8+8=17+14.5=31.5 so the Wolf Spider Ranger outdamages that Ranger again.

So, dual-wielding with the spider attacking is the only combo that has a competitive chance, and it is a rather small window, and still relying in part on poison damage.

Actually, the Wolf Spider isn't even that close to the most damaging Beast. In fact, it has less AC and significantly less to-hit than the most powerful damaging option. I'd consider it "middle-of-the-pack" in terms of damage.

The strongest companion is the Giant Poisonous Snake, which, quite frankly, does more damage than even a fighter or barbarian unless they use feats or cast serious buff spells. At level 5, we're talking a best-case scenario of doing 19 damage with a +9 to-hit alone. With a 10ft reach. That's a total of 34 damage every round at level 5 for the Beastmaster Ranger. Worst-case (they succeed both saves), this is still 29 damage.

The Wolf Spider really just pails, yet they're still better than non-beastmaster in terms of damage.

Also, we haven't brought it up yet, but in the PHB and DMG, there is no way to give your beast magical damage, meaning that after 5th level the chances of dealing half damage increase significantly.

The Wolf Spider does poison damage, which bypass that specific resistance.

But also, at 7th level, the companion's attacks are magical so that's wrong. Its in the Errata so you may have missed it if you have the OG PHB like I do.

Sure, "Beast as meat bag" isn't bad for the party, but considering it is an 8 hour ritual with a non-hostile beast to replace the one you lost, that is a steep cost.

The steep cost is...8 hours? I've seen spellcasters take longer in an adventure.

So, imagine if you will a subclass that was entirely "Prevent a single round of damage from one enemy once per day" and... well, that wouldn't be a very good subclass, would it?

Good thing that's not the only thing the subclass offers.

The problem with that is that if you are extending the fight, you are taking more potential damage. And dealing less damage guarantees that you are extending the fight.

Not everything is about damage, despite the previous topic. Sometimes imposing disadvantage on your enemy can be worth more than the damage outright since its basically an immediate effect. Damage doesn't do anything until the enemy's HP is 0. Bringing it closer to that number might save a round or be inconsequential depending on the actual tactic. Its best to use common sense when using your beast.

Clear that I had a ranger who insisted on using the PHB version instead of revised.... for about three sessions then asked if they could still change it

Doesn't change the point that someone must first play an optimal beastmaster before they can say they're good or bad in-play.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

@Helldritch
A lot of DMs wing the wilderness. And WOTC mostly ignores it until they make the climate adventure books and variant X books.

Then everyone looks at each other and wonder why an unplanned unprepped unsupported wilderness is boring and why the ranger is boring to play in it. Then people start wanting the ranger to be pure combat and are upset the fighter is a much better fighter.


And the airship is hit by a storm because noone rolled Survival to avoid bad weather.
And wouldn't you know it, the storm is a

rolls on magical storms table
Okay okay. Yikes. Everyone now roll Wisdom. Add Survival if you have it's proficient.
Yikes.

Suddenly a windstorm, saturated with sand, engulfs the airship. Since you rolled high enough Paul, you know its a a fiery haboob. A sharp heat flashes across your bodies for a brief moment before the airship spins violently. The captain mumbles something louldy before losing her lunch. You,you,and you hear her say "But that makes no sense.." before..
rolls

she slams into a wall and out of a window. She'll live.

Who wants to know why it makes no sense and who wants to brace for impact? Int check for the former, Str check for the later. Nature helps the Int check. Athletics for the Str check.

Did you just do a commando DM attack against another DMs campaign?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It's too late toaviod the storm if you just look out the window.

It was too late to avoid the storm as soon as they pissed off the God of Storms.

But even a natural storm cannot be predicted far enough in advance that a 4 MPH dirigible airship could avoid it.

So people don't track storms and build defenses accordingly?

If a 1200m travel is boring then there isn't enough happening. And in most official settings, the wilds are lively. It's the reason why the ranger class still exists.

There is plenty that happens. One random encounter after another after another after another.

The trouble is random encounters do not advance the plot or tell a story. They are meaningless, and hence boring.

as for ranger, you don't need rangers to survive in wilderness. You just get all the aspects condensed in one package.

You don't need ANYTHING to survive in the wilderness, because the plot says "heroes don't die of starvation in the wilderness".

 

[Minigiant]

Did you just do a commando DM attack against another DMs campaign?

I am not attacking a DM's compaign. I'm attacking the idea that wilderness adventuress in D&D are naturally boring and easily skippable.

It was too late to avoid the storm as soon as they pissed off the God of Storms.

But even a natural storm cannot be predicted far enough in advance that a 4 MPH dirigible airship could avoid it.

You really are supposed to roll the check before your party gets on the ship.
Rolling on the ship is the DM fixing their mistake.

There is plenty that happens. One random encounter after another after another after another.

The trouble is random encounters do not advance the plot or tell a story. They are meaningless, and hence boring.

Who says they are random?

My party's orc hating ranger got into a dust up ith an orc champion attempting to ambush the guy genociding his people. He ambushed them in the woods away from the party's civilized allies.

The ambushes failed but now the BBEG has 2 undead orc champions and multiple orc warbands on his side.
Oh and the party pet wolf got eaten by a snake.

You don't need ANYTHING to survive in the wilderness, because the plot says "heroes don't die of starvation in the wilderness".

Starvation is the only threat in the wildsof fantasy.
That's my point. Many DMs handle wilderness adventures as if the only bad thing that can happen is you starve.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

You really are supposed to roll the check before your party gets on the ship.
Rolling on the ship is the DM fixing their mistake.

1) Meteorology is the responsibility of the ship's crew, not the passengers;
2) They had already been on the ship for two weeks when the storm hit (Talos waited until they where over the sea);
3) An airship is too slow to outrun a storm, and too big to shelter from it. All it can do is try and weather it.

Who says they are random?

2000 miles overland says it's random. No DM can create that much non-random story advancing content.

My party's orc hating ranger got into a dust up ith an orc champion attempting to ambush the guy genociding his people. He ambushed them in the woods away from the party's civilized allies.

The ambushes failed but now the BBEG has 2 undead orc champions and multiple orc warbands on his side

Oh and the party pet wolf got eaten by a snake.

So you are punishing the party, not based on their decisions, but based on a poor survival skill check?

Not a fun way to play. The door to the next part of the adventure is locked. You failed your lock pick skill roll, go home, you lose.

Starvation is the only threat in the wildsof fantasy.
That's my point. Many DMs handle wilderness adventures as if the only bad thing that can happen is you starve.

Or they could get eaten by wolves, or sink in the swamp, or whatever. But whatever it is it has no agency. "Random naughty word happens" is not an interesting story.

 

[Minigiant]

1) Meteorology is the responsibility of the ship's crew, not the passengers;
2) They had already been on the ship for a week when the storm hit;
3) An airship is to slow to outrun a storm, and too big to shelter from it. All it can do is try and weather it.

When my party is in the wilderness, I roll every week for storms and every day for weather.

The party members know this.
The NPCs know this.
This is part of the world.

They can roll Wisdom (Survival) to predict weather and storms. NPCs whose job is to do this, always attempt the check.

you are punishing the party, not based on their decisions, but based on a poor survival skill check?

Not a fun way to play. The door to the next part of the adventure is locked. You failed your lock pick skill roll, go home, you loose.

The party's ranger is the one who killed all those orcs and became a nemesis to all orc kind.

I mean that's why you kill your enemies and leave no witnesses.

Or they could get eaten by wolves, or sink in the swamp, or whatever. But whatever it is it has no agency. "Random naughty word happens" is not an interesting story.

They went into the wilderness.
That's their agency.
Adventuring is not normal.

 

[Don Durito]

Some examples of Wilderness stuff.
1) Heavy snowstorm, PCs must find shelter or risk freezing. The party risk losing time, if under pressure until the snowstorm passes. The nearest shelt is cave with two cute little bear cubs at the back of it. Presumaby mother bear will be back soon.
2) A local mountain pass the party may be likely to travel over become closed by snow. If they persist in crossing they run into strong possibilties of futher bad weather and avalanche.
3) High altitude. Everyone roll a D6 (because fitness is no protection), any PCs who roll a 1 have altitude sickness. Better get them down to a lower altitude quickly or serious problems may occur.
4) Sandstorm in the desert. Visibility is reduced to nothing. When it abates one of their camels with all their supplies has disappeared, but there is an unstable looking hole in the sand leading down into a tunnel.
5) A series of rock formations in the desert, Bulletes circling in the sand. PCs need to find a path to cross from rocks to rocks, trying to avoid the sand as much as possible.
6) A valley in the mountains where a strange purple flower grows, anyone to close to the flower risks being teleported to somewhere else nearby where the flower grows. The party needs to identify what is randomly teleporting them, and find a way out of the valley that avoids the influence of the flowers.
7) A dungeon the main entrance of which is two great doors in the middle ofa sheer cliff face. There is another entrance behind a waterfall on the other side of the mountain and some shafts which winged goblins use to exit the upper reaches of the dungeon. PCs have to explore and find a way in while being tracked by yeti and possibly having their stuff stolen by winged goblins.
8) PCs are woken in the night the by the sound of a airship on fire burning overhead as it veers towards the earth. It crashes somewhere in the swamp/forest/ nearby. No doubt, there may be survivors to rescue or treasure to be found.
9) A hazardous swamp filled with quicksand, as well as a mix of land and water that needs canoes to traverse, in the centre of, and also within and filled by, the swamp is a lost city full of treasure.
10) A well known mountain pass over a steep and very deep gorge. There is a famous bridge across the chasm but it has just recently been destroyed.
11) A lost city somewhere in a high mountain range.
12) The party are sent to track down an airship that is believed to have crashed while passing through a mountain range at high altitude.
13) The party are shipwrecked on a coastline facing onto wilderness and have to find their way to civilisation.
14) The game begins with the party escaping from slavery and trying to flee across the wilderness while being chased by slavers who seek to recapture them.
15) PCs are woken by an owlbear charging through their camp. It doesn't attack, however, it just keeps going. After a minute it becomes clear why. A raging fire front is approaching through the forest.

Of course, if you let the party have a long rest every night in the wilderness you'll have a hard time presenting challenges in a game that is all about attrition and resource management.

So, you know, don't do that.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

When my party is in the wilderness, I roll every week for storms and every day for weather.

That sounds boring. Day 117. Another roll for rain....

The party members know this.
The NPCs know this.
This is part of the world.

They can roll Wisdom (Survival) to predict weather and storms. NPCs whose job is to do this, always attempt the check.

So the party know if they are going to get wet or not. Big deal.

The party's ranger is the one who killed all those orcs and became a nemesis to all orc kind.

So, only rangers are allowed to hate orcs? I can't create a wizard who hates orcs?

They went into the wilderness.
That's their agency.

The wilderness has no agency. It is not an antagonist. Stories without an antagonist are meaningless and boring.

 

[Flamestrike]

Rangers! An Exciting New D&D Class

Read the above link for a dope history lesson on the OSR Ranger.

 

[Minigiant]

That sounds boring. Day 117. Another roll for rain..

Again.
The whole point is that D&D is heroic fantasy and you as the DM aren't constraint by real life reality. Especially in the wild.

Rain is one outcome for the roll. Spontaneous viodstorm is another.

So, only rangers are allowed to hate orcs? I can't create a wizard who hates orcs?

Orcs band together to kill the wizard?

The wilderness has no agency. It is not an antagonist. Stories without an antagonist are meaningless and boring

Survival stories much.

Man vs Wild is a classic plot. C'mon.

What are you gonna say next. Traps are not fun because a falling boulder lacks a brain and pits cannot speak?