I've reversed my stance on dragonborn and tieflings

[Mercule]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see D&D through Fantasy lenses. I see Fantasy through D&D lenses.

I think this is a major disconnect between two significant groups of D&D players. I have never, in my life, wanted to play D&D. I've wanted to play a pseudo-Medieval fantasy roleplaying game and found D&D to have adequate mechanics that were easy to teach and learn.

I despise the notion that D&D emulates the D&D genre. I can see the argument that D&D is such a potpourri of fantasy sub-genres that the whole is a separate sub-genre. The game system should not actively seek to be its own, though. It should allow for the emulation of other, extant fantasy genres.

But, others feel just as strongly the opposite way.

Because you're growing racial features with feats. It kills my suspension of disbelief in the same way that taking puberty as a feat would. Simulation defines what is simulated, ala what they did with Eberron, rather than the other way around as it should be. Regressive, unnecessary introduction of D&Disms purely for design convenience.

This is my issue, as well. It's the same reason I found the monster classes in Savage Species to be utter crap. The flavor bent to the numbers, rather than defining the flavor, then setting the numbers. Sometimes, level adjustment (or something similar) is the only way to balance an option -- minotaurs really don't work as an ECL 1 character.

 

[Mallus]

Your explanation sounds contrived, forced and fabricated, which says it all IMO.

It sounds like every other "real world" explanation of game mechanics in D&D. Therefore, it is appropriate.

 

[Oldtimer]

Your explanation sounds contrived, forced and fabricated, which says it all IMO.

Flavour as afterthought just sticks out like a sore thumb, but it's easy to kid yourself that you've explained it away. Core D&D deserves better.

That flavour sounds good to me. I mean, it's not like this whole game is contrived and fabricated, is it?

 

[Abstraction]

Tieflings hang out at Denny's and drink herbal tea all night.

 

[Hjorimir]

I guess I'm one of the few who loves the new tiefling backstory. When I read about them I kept thinking how many great role-playing hooks and plots there were to explore. I pretty darn sure they will be a major part of my first 4E game.

 

[rkanodia]

No, the "warlord" already has the pretentious and impudent niche covered in 4E. Now with added hubris. Just watch how they'll get played.

Little tangent - this is exactly how I wanted to play a warlord, except with the twist that he's actually a useless buffoon. For instance, I might, as the player, activate Feather Me Yon Oaf, and then complain, in character, that I "would have had that one if you idiots hadn't had to go and waste all your arrows on it."

 

[BASHMAN]

Why couldn't the PHB have classic races (dwarf, elf, gnome, halfling, half-elf, half-orc, and human) done in as setting-neutral a way as possible?

Later PHBs could have been setting specific. A planar PHB could have assimar, tieflings and other planar races. The Eberron PHB would have changelings, warforged, etc.

The answer is that WotC wants players who want classic options to have to buy as many PHBs as possible.

Wow. When I read that I heard the sound of a nail being hit on the head. This is exactly what they are doing.

 

[helium3]

Why couldn't the PHB have classic races (dwarf, elf, gnome, halfling, half-elf, half-orc, and human) done in as setting-neutral a way as possible?

You're absolutely right. This is the way D&D has been done for hundreds of years and I don't see any reason now to change it.

That bit of sarcasm being said, I also found the Tiefling flavor to be somewhat bland. I also find those big meaty sausage-tails to be rather bizarre looking. As much as I hate to say it, I can't help but look at the drawings of 4E Tieflings and not think about how difficult it must be for a Tiefling to excrete solid waste without making a terrible mess.

 

[hazel monday]

Why couldn't the PHB have classic races (dwarf, elf, gnome, halfling, half-elf, half-orc, and human) done in as setting-neutral a way as possible?


The answer is that WotC wants players who want classic options to have to buy as many PHBs as possible.

Ding! Ding! Ding!
We have a winner. I actually like a few of the mechanical changes for 4.0 I've heard about. But the 3 card monty approach they have to marketing the game just doesn't sit well with me at all.

 

[hojas]

Evil will never ever be cool. If you think evil is cool then you are dumb.

Evil will always win because good is dumb

For some reason the dragonborn(especially suited up in armor) remind me of those futuristic wargame minis that used to be advertised in the pages of Dungeon or Dragon magazines. I just don't like the idea of Tieflings and Dragonborn being "core" races. I would be a lot happier if they were options in future supplements like warforged, thri-kreen etc... Now almost every pick-up game at the shop or on the new DDI will have to deal with these "evil hipster" races.