I've seen The Last Samurai

[GoodKingJayIII]

I thoroughly enjoyed the movie for what it was: a movie. I take historical inaccuracies with a grain of salt, because I realize that as an entertaining endeavor, moviemakers tend to create what sells best. Not that I think accurate history would sell less than inaccurate, but you take my meaning. The average individual (myself included) could not have told you the dates those particular rifles or gatling guns were first introduced, but even if I could've, I don't think I would've cared.

Parts of the movie were trite, but audiences eat that stuff up. I admit it: I got caught up in the movie, and I ate it up too. I ate it so much I went for a second helping

It was definitely enjoyable, but I wouldn't put it on the History Channel.

... then again, even if it were historically accurate, I wouldn't put it on the History Channel anyway, as they only seem really interested in WWII...

 

[reapersaurus]

So why did the Japanese have to eradicate the Samurai culture?
Why couldn't they have "ushered Japan into the modern era" while keeping the Samurai along with it?

Was it because of the Samurai's extreme hardline stance(s)? They just couldn't adapt to any new approaches?

BTW: Thanks for that info. You're a Scot, eh? Neat.

 

[Amal Shukup]

So why did the Japanese have to eradicate the Samurai culture?
Why couldn't they have "ushered Japan into the modern era" while keeping the Samurai along with it?.

Well they did, sort of. Many samurai were deeply involved in bringing about the Meiji restoration and the subsequent modernization (particularly Kido Koin). And of course Japan still honors many of the best aspects of the Samurai traditions.

Was it because of the Samurai's extreme hardline stance(s)? They just couldn't adapt to any new approaches?

Certainly they were concerned about their privileges. Many wanted to keep possesion of their lands, the right to tax 'their' peasants and to maintain a monopoly on armed force.

Taxation and Armed force were, of course, the same things the oligarchy wanted the 'state' to control, rather than the feudal lords and the Samurai. They also needed to eliminate the rigid caste system to allow the sweeping social changes they implemented (universal education fer instance)

Not a lot of middle ground there. Also, Meiji and his oligarchy were in a huge hurry: The rest of the world was huffing and puffing on their doorstep and looking to gobble them up. They were already nibbling... Look at the history of pretty much any south asian country to see how much fun that would have been.

Meiji and his oligarchy saved Japan from a lot of that. Of course they also created an imperial power that almost reflexively kicked the snot out of their neighbors until they got their behinds handed to them in WW II.

BTW: Thanks for that info. You're a Scot, eh? Neat.

More than welcome for the info - I'm a bit passionate about history and can't resist blathering about it...

I'm a Canadian of primarily Scottish extraction. The rest being Irish - although even those guys were Scots originally. Of course THOSE Scots were just Irish immigrants... Er, except for the ones who were Picts... Darn it, I can't be held responsible for the migrations and dalliances of a buncha skirt wearin' heathens

Yes, I own a kilt. No, I'm not wearing it right now....

A'Mal

 

[barsoomcore]

Keep in mind that "the samurai" were not a homogenous body. The real struggle was not between "the samurai" and everybody else in Japan, it was between those who wanted to sweep out the existing social structure (by bringing the Emperor to a direct handling of power that was almost unheard of in Japanese history) and those who wanted to keep many things as they were. There were samurai on both sides of that struggle.

Amal, nice summary.

Kilt? Hm. What tartan? Mine's Forbes, after my maternal grandmother. My father's a Robertson but I like the Forbes better.

 

[barsoomcore]

If you stopped being SO intent on looking 'behind the facade' when first seeing a movie, you wouldn't have these kinds of problems, which in your own words are decreasing the enjoyment of the film for you.

Right. I've got to stop watching battle scenes thinking, "I wonder if any of the extras are going to fall flat on their backs in this scene." It's really ruining things for me. How is this a "repeating character trait"? What's the other movie I mentioned where seeing a guy in the background completely wipe out during the climactic scene took me out of the moment? You'll have to refresh my memory on that one.

Have your S.O., or someone who knows you well, read my posts on this subject and tell me they don't agree with me.

Mrs. Barsoom says stuff I'm not going to post. She thinks I'm tremendously patient with you. But then, she's on my side.

 

[reapersaurus]

Yes, I own a kilt. No, I'm not wearing it right now....

You'd have a field day, I'm sure, with the historical innacuracies my Scottish Renaissance Guild (reenacters) perpetrates for the sake of entertainment.

We portray 1562 Scotland (court of Mary, Queen of Scots) and I'm in the Halberdiers (Queen's Guard) wearing Black Watch tartan.

 

[reapersaurus]

How is this a "repeating character trait"? What's the other movie I mentioned where seeing a guy in the background completely wipe out during the climactic scene took me out of the moment? You'll have to refresh my memory on that one.

Geez - put 2 and 2 together, dude.
I'm suprised I have to connect the dots for someone as obviously intelligent as you.

In the "telegraphed movie endings" thread (Who is Keyser Soze, if memory serves), I went round and round with you with my guess/hypothesis about you, and how your over-observant nature (purposely or unpurposely looking for hints in stories, cracks in the movie facade so to speak) leads you to not enjoy movies as much as most people, who just watch as a typical audience member - not trying to out-guess what the movie is showing you.
Then you relate that your concentration on a background extra caused you to lose enjoyment of an epic battle scene.

I thought I telegraphed that solid connection enough for you to get my intent.
Guess if it was a movie, you'd have seen that connection coming a mile away, eh?

And tell Mrs. Barsoom that it strains my credulity that someone as over-analytical and anally observant when watching movies as you doesn't get your fair share of abuse about that trait from her.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Let's steer away from opinions on each other's character and keep the discussion on the movie, hmm?

-Hyp.
(Moderator)

 

[Amal Shukup]

Kilt? Hm. What tartan? Mine's Forbes, after my maternal grandmother. My father's a Robertson but I like the Forbes better.

It's a fairly obscure (and historically speaking, fairly indefensible) MacGregor 'Hunting'. It's mostly purple with green bands and a white strip.

Hey Cuz! I got some Robertson from my Maternal grandmother. Not a bad tartan. Just, y'now, brightish. Although there are some nice variants...

Of course, as Reapersaurus intimates, the historical validity of these things are, well, somewhere beyond 'suspect'. But who cares? They look cool, let one flaunt one's heritage, and the ladies 'round here love a man in a heavy wool skirt...

HEY! I gotta do some product placement... Have ye seen the Utilikilt?

A'Mal

 

[barsoomcore]

reaper, email me if you want to send me comments like that. Not on the boards, dude.