JoeGKushner
Adventurer
Badkarmaboy said:
So they're reprinting the old 1st ed grey boxed set?
James Wyatt + FR!?
- Thread starter Badkarmaboy
- Start date
So they're reprinting the old 1st ed grey boxed set?
It's a good post, and I'm willing to see what they do to the realms, but the use of huge amounts of used art in the History of the Realms makes that book a lot less beautiful than it could have been. Their willngness to cut corners on a capstone-type product makes me less than thrilled about what they have in mind for the future.
Why, oh why, did you use so much recycled art in the History?
Sorry, that's off topic.
What is the heart of the realms? That is a tough one for me. I think it is the organizations, and the names, and the map, and the shared history of all the great (if overly detailed at times) supplements.
Why, oh why, did you use so much recycled art in the History?
Sorry, that's off topic.
What is the heart of the realms? That is a tough one for me. I think it is the organizations, and the names, and the map, and the shared history of all the great (if overly detailed at times) supplements.
Sundragon2012
First Post
Damn good post.
These designers love FR as much as many of the setting's unpaid fans. They have to walk a tightrope of balance between dusting the old setting off and maybe allowing even old fans to feel the sense of "wow, this is so cool, I wonder what's in this dark ancient forest" that I know I felt when I first saw the FR map in the old Grey Box and making it new enough to draw in new fans.
If Wyatt, Baker and the whole team can bring that back, then FR may have another 20+yrs of life. The designers want this as much as the hard core fans because the continued health of D&D and its settings allow them to keep getting paid as a dream job.
I used to run an FR campaign for years but drifted away to various other settings. I would like to see FR being me back. It isn't going to replace my homebrew setting, but that doesn't mean I won't enjoy this new FR.
I think so much of the criticism leveled at the designers is the same ugly, rude, ignorant crap I see online all the time. As the one time proprieter of an online buisness I long ago realized that the anonymity of the net allows people to be jerks. I have also learned that the most vocal critics represent a tiny fraction of the customer base.
Sundragon
These designers love FR as much as many of the setting's unpaid fans. They have to walk a tightrope of balance between dusting the old setting off and maybe allowing even old fans to feel the sense of "wow, this is so cool, I wonder what's in this dark ancient forest" that I know I felt when I first saw the FR map in the old Grey Box and making it new enough to draw in new fans.
If Wyatt, Baker and the whole team can bring that back, then FR may have another 20+yrs of life. The designers want this as much as the hard core fans because the continued health of D&D and its settings allow them to keep getting paid as a dream job.
I used to run an FR campaign for years but drifted away to various other settings. I would like to see FR being me back. It isn't going to replace my homebrew setting, but that doesn't mean I won't enjoy this new FR.
I think so much of the criticism leveled at the designers is the same ugly, rude, ignorant crap I see online all the time. As the one time proprieter of an online buisness I long ago realized that the anonymity of the net allows people to be jerks. I have also learned that the most vocal critics represent a tiny fraction of the customer base.
Sundragon
Vigilance
Explorer
Every shared world needs a reboot on occasion.
And there will be hue and cry from the established fanbase when that happens.
Ask Marvel and DC, they'll tell you.
I've been on both sides of it. I've watched DC fans tear their hair over Crisis, done some tearing myself over Avengers disassembled and shook my head in puzzlement over that... whatever that big Greyhawk reboot they tried in the 2e days was called.
And there will be hue and cry from the established fanbase when that happens.
Ask Marvel and DC, they'll tell you.
I've been on both sides of it. I've watched DC fans tear their hair over Crisis, done some tearing myself over Avengers disassembled and shook my head in puzzlement over that... whatever that big Greyhawk reboot they tried in the 2e days was called.
wingsandsword
Legend
Sounds like they are acknowledged the controversy, while saying that it's done and they have to go ahead with it because it's too late to go back now. If they knew it would be as controversial as they were saying they knew it would be, I'd figure they'd have been a little different with how they treated things.
Big Realms-shaking events are the norm, whether it be the Fall of Netheril/Karsus's Folly, or the Dawn Cataclysm, or the Time of Troubles, or the Tuigan Invasion, but even in an event as huge as the Time of Troubles or Karsus's Folly, the changes weren't this big (Mystra/Mystril died in both of those events, but was reincarnated, this time it looks like that's not happening). That many gods didn't die in either of those events, the world wasn't changed this much by any one event or rapid series of events. Nothing was ever so vast that it literally reshaped the cosmology, even the shift from the Great Wheel to the new cosmology in 3e was a quiet retcon instead of the result of a huge in-setting cataclysm.
Realms-shaking events are expected, Realms-breaking events aren't.
If it was just a few of these events, it would feel more natural, like it was the way things could happen, this however feels more like ham-fistedly trying to reshape the Forgotten Realms to fit pre-defined parameters of what 4e is supposed to be.
Saying that it's still D&D and you can play it however you like starts to ring hollow when WotC starts saying otherwise by reshaping existing D&D worlds.
Big Realms-shaking events are the norm, whether it be the Fall of Netheril/Karsus's Folly, or the Dawn Cataclysm, or the Time of Troubles, or the Tuigan Invasion, but even in an event as huge as the Time of Troubles or Karsus's Folly, the changes weren't this big (Mystra/Mystril died in both of those events, but was reincarnated, this time it looks like that's not happening). That many gods didn't die in either of those events, the world wasn't changed this much by any one event or rapid series of events. Nothing was ever so vast that it literally reshaped the cosmology, even the shift from the Great Wheel to the new cosmology in 3e was a quiet retcon instead of the result of a huge in-setting cataclysm.
Realms-shaking events are expected, Realms-breaking events aren't.
If it was just a few of these events, it would feel more natural, like it was the way things could happen, this however feels more like ham-fistedly trying to reshape the Forgotten Realms to fit pre-defined parameters of what 4e is supposed to be.
Saying that it's still D&D and you can play it however you like starts to ring hollow when WotC starts saying otherwise by reshaping existing D&D worlds.
Glyfair
Explorer
MerricB said:
Unfortunately, much of D&D's "story" was like that. How many people really have enough knowledge to write such books as the Fiendish Codexes? That very fact limits your audience, because history has shown fans will get in an uproar about "mistakes" in the canon.
If you were setting up almost the next decades of products, wouldn't it make sense to make that canon less important for the "generic" supplements?
I agree with Samnell, in that this sounds like clear damage control. I think its sincere, but its still damage control.
I believe WotC has been pushing the envelope of fundamental and massive change within D&D to the point that it has finally struck a cord in enough current gamers to make them take notice. Gamers that identified with, and were upset about the cancellation of the magazines ... of Grayhawk and other core elements of D&D that are being swept aside for 4E were probably calculated as an acceptable number of customers to alienate.
But when enough FR fans spoke out against the plans to change such a huge part of the Realms, it became time to attempt to manage customer expectations.
Nothing in JW's blog indicates that WotC is changing any part of their plans for FR. Only that they took another look at it, and decided it was still the best thing to do. But like the cancellation of the magazines and the of Grayhawk, the final decision was already made before any of us heard a thing about it.
I believe WotC has been pushing the envelope of fundamental and massive change within D&D to the point that it has finally struck a cord in enough current gamers to make them take notice. Gamers that identified with, and were upset about the cancellation of the magazines ... of Grayhawk and other core elements of D&D that are being swept aside for 4E were probably calculated as an acceptable number of customers to alienate.
But when enough FR fans spoke out against the plans to change such a huge part of the Realms, it became time to attempt to manage customer expectations.
Nothing in JW's blog indicates that WotC is changing any part of their plans for FR. Only that they took another look at it, and decided it was still the best thing to do. But like the cancellation of the magazines and the of Grayhawk, the final decision was already made before any of us heard a thing about it.
wingsandsword said:
On other forums specifically with FR in mind, many want the RSE's to stop. There have been many the last few years, and most readers and fans want smaller novels, and less destruction of the Realms. It has really accelerated since 3e.
It may be the norm, but it is a designer's norm, and not what the fans want. The designers don't listen then, and they just can't stop this Realms-breaking event, either.
Just yet another misconception that FR fans actually want change and destruction on a monthly basis.
