Jeremy Crawford: “We are releasing new editions of the books”

[mamba]

Its the single biggest unforced error they could be making trying to change the game as dramatically as OneDND has while trying to frame it as just a revision.

short of releasing an actual incompatible 6e

 

[deganawida]

clairity...

imagine tomorrow Mcdonalds made a 'new' big mac that is a single burger on a sourer dough bun with mayo mustard lettuce tomato and pickle.

That MIGHT be a great burger, but calling it a big mac confuses people.

putting out a taste test of that new burger and saying "It's still the big mac just like any other Big mac would make people ask "wait this is a new big mac right?"

It gets worse if you go to your favorite Mc donalds message board to ask about New Big Mac and people insist it isn't new it's the same big mac...

now I am hungry, but I wont go to fast food on a night I don't work.

Man, that's MUCH better than my car analogy.

And now I too want a Big Mac, which I haven't had in a few years.

 

[deganawida]

I will raise you a 3rd coke...

I just got back from my Honey Moon, and we went to Jamacia. They had Coke made with real suger... here in the states we us corn by product. So in theory there could be 4 really... the new coke made from suger, the new coke made from corn, the classic coke made with suger and the clastic coke made with corn.

Around here (GA), and in CA and PA it's called "Mexican Coke", because Mexico gets the sugar, too. Like, that's how the restaurants list it in their menu.

 

[Velderan]

Around here (GA), and in CA and PA it's called "Mexican Coke", because Mexico gets the sugar, too. Like, that's how the restaurants list it in their menu.

Pretty sure Coke sold everywhere outside of the US contains sugar instead of corn syrup.

 

[Vaalingrade]

This thread unexpectedly makes me remember and miss the Arch Deluxe.

 

[Parmandur]

Which means it needs conversion? Why would it need conversion if it is the same edition?

No conversion needed, not even for Warlock Subclasses. Even now, in rough draft, and they have explicitly promised to clean up how older subclasses slot into the new Class frameworks in the final publication. But anyone can already do this, easily.

 

[Parmandur]

I guess we shall see when its finally released.

I mean, you can see the packets now.

 

[ThrorII]

Around here (GA), and in CA and PA it's called "Mexican Coke", because Mexico gets the sugar, too. Like, that's how the restaurants list it in their menu.

Yup, Mexican Coca-Cola. Real sugar, just like it used to be here. And it is GOOOOOD!!!!
I can get it here - in glass bottles no less - at the local carniceria, or when I go to Rocky Point.

 

[Minigiant]

This thread unexpectedly makes me remember and miss the Arch Deluxe.

over the Big N Tasty or Angus Burger?

 

[deganawida]

Pretty sure Coke sold everywhere outside of the US contains sugar instead of corn syrup.

Reminds me of Hardy Boys Casefiles book I read in my preteen days. Turned out the French chef planning meals for anschoold district was using horse meat, because Americans had bad taste. He might be right; our McDonalds suck compared to global offerings.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I had to do a lot of conversion during the 4e era before essential came around, because the errata of the classes were filling folders...

2e skills and powers also changed a lot of the structures, so class kits also did not work perfectly smooth. And so on.

So wherever someone wants to draw a line. There are som many historical precedents regarding edition changes and not that any argumentation finds a counter example...

4e was infamous for its phantom release, "The Never-Complete Errata Handbook", and Skills & Powers for 2e was a whole new way of making characters, intended as a replacement for that part of the PH. Not what's happening here.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It's the kobayashi maru: if they don't update the rules, people will ignore the 24 update. If they do update the rules, people will complain it's no longer compatible. If they say the old rules are compatible, people will complain it's not 100% compatible and it invalidates the old stuff. If they say it's a brand new start, people will complain that it's a cash grab and they want to resell you an entire edition's worth of stuff again. And if WotC hadn't announced a refresh, people would complain WotC isn't updating the game and it was getting stale.

But they wouldn't all be the  same people.

 

[Vaalingrade]

over the Big N Tasty or Angus Burger?

I feel like the Big N Tasty was a ressurected Arch Deluxe. And you'd have to specify with Angus Burger. The Mushroom and Swiss was excellent.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

But they wouldn't all be the  same people.

You're technically right that they wouldn't all be the same people. But it's pretty apparent that there are people who want it all to crash and burn, so yeah, there are going to be people who will pounce if they smell blood, and try to hurt Wizards as much as possible no matter what happens. They aren't subtle about it. Wizards has had some blunders. And some people will never let that go.

 

[Micah Sweet]

So you're saying if enough grognards that want THAC0 back make enough noise, we'll get D&D Classic with more THAC0?

I never understood why people hated on THAC0 so much anyway.

 

[Micah Sweet]

You're technically right that they wouldn't all be the same people. But it's pretty apparent that there are people who want it all to crash and burn, so yeah, there are going to be people who will pounce if they smell blood, and try to hurt Wizards as much as possible no matter what happens. They aren't subtle about it. Wizards has had some blunders. And some people will never let that go.

Any reason they should?

 

[Micah Sweet]

short of releasing an actual incompatible 6e

Not a universally shared opinion, clearly.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

'We are releasing new editions of the books,” Crawford emphasized. “We are not releasing a new edition of the game. And so that, I think, is a really important distinction — that it is still 5th edition, but yes, we are releasing revised versions of the books, which anywhere else in the publishing world would be called new editions.”

Such a nice quote. Exactly what I want to hear. Too bad it's not only kind of true.

I don't care about the terminology. Whether or not it's a "new edition", OneD&D is a more substantial redesign than I wanted, and, I would argue, more of a change than a 5e player whose only knowledge of OneD&D is this quote would expect.

I would have loved getting a modest update to the 2014 PHB to bring it in line with late 5e design principles (even if I think some of those principles are silly... I'm looking at you Mr. Ubiquitous Repurposing of the Proficiency Bonus For Everything). I wanted PHB Ranger and Sorcerer subclasses to get some free spells, Magic Initiate to be rewritten to work like later, similar feats, and a few other tweaks, and would have also been happy with a more substantial reworking of races given what a mess that had become post-Tashas. The 2014 Monster Manual always needed another pass and was just too much material to create all at once for a game that hadn't had much roadtesting, so even if I wasn't crazy about some of the Monsters of the Multiverse era tweaks I think 5e monster design definitely got better and the MM needed an update. The DMG... well I don't really care, it's not something I get much use out of, but it could probably be organized better, maybe then I'd get a little more use out of it.

Anyway that's what I wanted, that's what I think I would have expected if my only OneD&D knowledge was this Jeremy Crawford quote. After the 1st playtest I thought that might still be what we were got. But then we entered this weird world of the later playtests which I see as generally being an approach of pushing the boundaries of what can be called 5e compatible. While I am on the "yes OneD&D is still compatible" side of that debate, that doesn't mean it's not still more of a change than I would like or than I would say this Crawford quote implies.

Of course the product I really wanted would be a big book of all the 5e player option materials, so I wouldn't have to truck around and crossreference a small library just to run a PC, and that would be a great place to do the level of light updating I wanted to PHB content. But that was never going to happen. WotC would much rather people buy many books than one, whether or not it's convenient to actually use.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Such a nice quote. Exactly what I want to hear. Too bad it's not only kind of true.

I don't care about the terminology. Whether or not it's a "new edition", OneD&D is a more substantial redesign than I wanted, and, I would argue, more of a change than a 5e player whose only knowledge of OneD&D is this quote would expect.

I would have loved getting a modest update to the 2014 PHB to bring it in line with late 5e design principles (even if I think some of those principles are silly... I'm looking at you Mr. Ubiquitous Repurposing of the Proficiency Bonus For Everything). I wanted PHB Ranger and Sorcerer subclasses to get some free spells, Magic Initiate to be rewritten to work like later, similar feats, and a few other tweaks, and would have also been happy with a more substantial reworking of races given what a mess that had become post-Tashas. The 2014 Monster Manual always needed another pass and was just too much material to create all at once for a game that hadn't had much roadtesting, so even if I wasn't crazy about some of the Monsters of the Multiverse era tweaks I think 5e monster design definitely got better and the MM needed an update. The DMG... well I don't really care, it's not something I get much use out of, but it could probably be organized better, maybe then I'd get a little more use out of it.

Anyway that's what I wanted, that's what I think I would have expected if my only OneD&D knowledge was this Jeremy Crawford quote. After the 1st playtest I thought that might still be what we were got. But then we entered this weird world of the later playtests which I see as generally being an approach of pushing the boundaries of what can be called 5e compatible. While I am on the "yes OneD&D is still compatible" side of that debate, that doesn't mean it's not still more of a change than I would like or than I would say this Crawford quote implies.

Of course the product I really wanted would be a big book of all the 5e player option materials, so I wouldn't have to truck around and crossreference a small library just to run a PC, and that would be a great place to do the level of light updating I wanted to PHB content. But that was never going to happen. WotC would much rather people buy many books than one, whether or not it's convenient to actually use.

If Crawford had not doubled-down on the, "it's the same edition" claim he keeps making, sales of all books between now and 2024 might drop. It's just a money thing.

 

[mamba]

Not a universally shared opinion, clearly.

no idea, maybe they hadn't thought of that