D&D (2024) Jeremy Crawford discusses what are the 2024 Fitfh Edition Core Rulebooks.

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If McDonald's says they are selling fries, they are likely selling fries. I don't care that you've never seen a waffle fry before and therefore can't accept it is a fry and not a hashbrown. That doesn't mean the company is lying.

I mean, they can say New Coke is the same as old Coke, but it didn't stop the consumers from disagreeing. It's why we have Classic now. They also say that about Vernors and how it tastes nowadays, but I'm a bit too young to be fully able to comment there. Food is terrible for this sort of example because small changes can create big changes in taste. I think we've all been to places where they did changes to food you used to like and it wasn't as good as you wanted any more. They can say it's the same, but it doesn't feel that way when you are eating it.

What we have here with 1D&D is, arguably, even more difficult. The dividing line between what people call a new edition or even half-edition and what one might call "errata" is very thin. Does it start and end with class changes? Does it mean changes to combat mechanics? How about changes to the spell system? There are arguments to all of those that we could quibble and debate over, but the line can be set many places.

You know where the line isn't set? Wherever Wizards sets it. They can say it's not an edition change and that's fine, but that doesn't mean much given that they seem to think they have a vested interest in not calling it that. Just because a company says something is the same doesn't mean we should take that line at face value. And hell, I'm not even the guy who is really interested in that debate.

I'll repeat: my argument is not whether it is or isn't, simply that I'd rather it be a half-edition or some such thing because I'd rather the designers have more freedom than less if they are going to make what is likely the PHB for the next decade. Every time we have this argument, I feel people miss that I really don't care what edition you want to call it, I'd just rather they move forward in a manner that gives them more freedom rather than one that makes them beholden to the bloat of the last 10 years.
 

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Chaosmancer

Legend
If McDonald’s says they aren’t changing their fries they are the same fries BUT they are making them out of tofu I think you WOULD see them called out.

Edit: wait the impossible whopper is a perfect example. Plenty of people got mad and said it’s not a whopper of there is no meat.

You are right, the impossible whopper which was never advertised to contain meat, yet people were furious because it didn't contain meat, is the perfect example of what is going on.
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
That’s because status of being fries is far more cut and dried than the status of being an edition of an RPG. Many different sorts of products have been released under the label of “edition.” A more apt analogy might be if McDonalds announced new “chips,” and American customers responded that they clearly aren’t chips, they’re fries.

So... because the definition isn't cut and dry.... your interpretation of the defintion is absolutely more correct than the people designing the product? Edit: Ah, you don't care, you just think are willing to say that OTHER people saying WoTC is lying and that they know better is what is going on.

Don’t put words in my mouth (err… fingers?) please. I do not have any such position. I’ve been using the term “2024 rules” myself since well before WotC said that was the term they were using internally, because I don’t think whether or not it’s an edition matters in the slightest, and “the 2024 rules” is an accurate description that avoids the apparently controversial term in question. I am simply saying that no amount of clarification on WotC’s part is going to sway the people who do see this as a change of edition, because lack of clarity is not the reason they see it so. They know what it is, because WotC has been showing it to us. They do not think “a continuation of the current edition” accurately describes what they’re seeing.

So they know better than the game designers what the game designers are creating? That is the exact position I am talking about.
 


Chaosmancer

Legend
I mean, they can say New Coke is the same as old Coke, but it didn't stop the consumers from disagreeing. It's why we have Classic now. They also say that about Vernors and how it tastes nowadays, but I'm a bit too young to be fully able to comment there. Food is terrible for this sort of example because small changes can create big changes in taste. I think we've all been to places where they did changes to food you used to like and it wasn't as good as you wanted any more. They can say it's the same, but it doesn't feel that way when you are eating it.

Yeah, but whether the Chicken Parmesan they make is the SAME chicken Parmesan they used to make isn't the issue. It is still Chicken Parmesan, just different.

2024 is DnD 5e... just different.

What we have here with 1D&D is, arguably, even more difficult. The dividing line between what people call a new edition or even half-edition and what one might call "errata" is very thin. Does it start and end with class changes? Does it mean changes to combat mechanics? How about changes to the spell system? There are arguments to all of those that we could quibble and debate over, but the line can be set many places.

You know where the line isn't set? Wherever Wizards sets it. They can say it's not an edition change and that's fine, but that doesn't mean much given that they seem to think they have a vested interest in not calling it that. Just because a company says something is the same doesn't mean we should take that line at face value. And hell, I'm not even the guy who is really interested in that debate.

So the company making the product has no say whatsoever in what the product is? They have no idea what is they are making? Again, they are telling you what they are making, why are you saying they are lying, while in the same breathe saying that it is an unclear distinction with many interpretations? How does this make ANY sense?

I'll repeat: my argument is not whether it is or isn't, simply that I'd rather it be a half-edition or some such thing because I'd rather the designers have more freedom than less if they are going to make what is likely the PHB for the next decade. Every time we have this argument, I feel people miss that I really don't care what edition you want to call it, I'd just rather they move forward in a manner that gives them more freedom rather than one that makes them beholden to the bloat of the last 10 years.

Well, sucks to be you. They aren't doing that. They've said they aren't doing that. REPEATEDLY. There are things I'd rather as well, but I'm not putting forth things like "just because the company says this is what it is, doesn't mean we have to believe them." Which is an absolutely, fundamentally different stance than "I'd rather they were doing this instead", because by repeatedly saying you don't need to believe the company, the message you are communicating is that they are actually doing an edition change, when they aren't. They've said they aren't. This isn't an edition change or a half-edition change or a quarter-edition change. They have been very clear what this is.

You want them to go farther in some cases? I agree! I want them to go farther in some of the design. But I can advocate for that, and not go around trying to pretend like what they are doing is something other than what they have claimed to be doing.
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
You know I have seen many many people saying it’s a new edition and only 1 uses the word lie. How often do we that say they are wrong actually say they lie?

WoTC has said it isn't a new edition. If you insist they are wrong, you are insisting one of two things. Either you believe they are ignorant and have no idea what a new edition of the game they designed looks like while you absolutely do or you are calling them liars. Either way, you are claiming you know better than the people who made the game, are making the revision, and have been repeatedly saying it is not a new edition.
 

HammerMan

Legend
Yeah, but whether the Chicken Parmesan they make is the SAME chicken Parmesan they used to make isn't the issue. It is still Chicken Parmesan, just different.

2024 is DnD 5e... just different.
I want to tell you about the pizza place down the road. When my parents were kids it was opened. When I was born they were going there all the time. I grew up 25 years loving the pizza and meatballs.
When I was in my 20s I actually had my group order delivery from them every game night.
Then came the day the owners left the place to their kids. The sauce wasn’t exactly the same but for 10 years we still eat there most but not all game nights.
Then they got a “new updated” oven and the pizza wasn’t as good and the meatballs started to not be good at all
They made the same pizza they made the same meatballs but I didn’t like them.

It doesn’t matter how many times they tell me it’s the same it doesn’t taste right

Now they went out of business right before covid. However I have had friends and family members mention missing the pizza but the old one not the kids one
 

HammerMan

Legend
WoTC has said it isn't a new edition
Yes
. If you insist they are wrong, you are insisting one of two things. Either you believe they are ignorant and have no idea what a new edition of the game they designed looks like while you absolutely do or you are calling them liars.
Or I disagree with them and don’t care if they believe it or not or whether they are wrong because of wanting to be wrong or not.
Either way, you are claiming you know better than the people who made the game, are making the revision, and have been repeatedly saying it is not a new edition.
What ever I will restate this:

We are all welcome to define a ‘game edition’ however we want. There is no official definition and you, me, WotC, or anyone here doesn’t own the term.



We are allowed to disagree with a corporation’s position on something. We are not employees, we’re fans.
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
Poor billion dollar company having to deal with people calling their spin spin. They must be protected. WITH CAPS LOCK

I would prefer if you're going to do the edgelord snark thing, that you do it in a more creative format. Like perhaps a haiku:

They defend the brand,
But they don't see the strings they're dancing on.
Sad little sheep.
 


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