jgbrowning, Rystil Arden, and Hypersmurf talk amongst themselves

[Rystil Arden]

I admit I'm lost. You'll have to state the point a bit clearer because I'm slowed today.

joe b.

That just goes to show that Expeditious Retreat is not a total counter for the Slow spell :

Shillelagh's target must be nonmagical, right? But the spell makes it magical. He was drawing a quick analogy to your ruling on Dominate. If a spell goes away when its target becomes invalid (as you ruled Dominate Person would if the person later became a giant) then Shillelagh would automatically fail to cast because the oaken staff would become an invalid target once it became magical from Shillelagh, and thus lose its power immediately.

 

[Hypersmurf]

My DM ruled that although the Vampire can issue me no further commands I still must (a) complete the last stated order and (b) not turn on the Vampire. However, once I complete (a), I may do anything I wish as long as it does not result in (b).

Hmm... I don't actually see support for (b) in the rules.

You were a valid target at time of casting; you are Dominated.

A Dominated creature (which you still are) continues to attempt to carry out a command, once given, to the exclusion of all else until it's completed. So I agree with (a).

However, the first line of the spell states that you can control the actions of a humanoid creature... which you aren't any more. So the vampire cannot change the command, or issue a new one, as long as you are not a humanoid creature.

Thus, my ruling would be that you'd follow the command to beat up the cleric, at which point you'd be entirely up to your own devices - including beating on the vampire, if you wish. But if at any point you become a humanoid again, you once more be subject to control, since you never actually ceased to be Dominated.

Even while you're a giant, you're still 'the subject', so the vampire continues to receive sensory impressions from you.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Ah! A very good example to back up my "targets needn't remain valid after the initial casting" view.

My favourite example

-Hyp.

 

[jgbrowning]

That just goes to show that Expeditious Retreat is not a total counter for the Slow spell :

Shillelagh's target must be nonmagical, right? But the spell makes it magical. He was drawing a quick analogy to your ruling on Dominate. If a spell goes away when its target becomes invalid (as you ruled Dominate Person would if the person later became a giant) then Shillelagh would automatically fail to cast because the oaken staff would become an invalid target once it became magical from Shillelagh, and thus lose its power immediately.

Heh, ok now I understand. If someone polymorphed the club into a steel club shaped object, I'd rule the shillelagh would stop working as well.

joe b.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Heh, ok now I understand. If someone polymorphed the club into a steel club shaped object, I'd rule the shillelagh would stop working as well.

joe b.

A double-standard eh? Sneaky

 

[gfunk]

I wonder if you'd ask these same questions if you were the one with the Dominate ability...

No.

 

[jgbrowning]

A double-standard eh? Sneaky

Not a double standard. Casting a spell on an item doesn't make that item a "magic item" until said spell is permanent. It's simply a non-magic item with a spell effecting it. The polymorph aruguement is a basic change not a template (if you will) that is put over a non-state changed item/person.

In other words, the club's only a magic item because of the spell, and since the spell obviously works we cannot consider it to have changed the state of the club so that the spell couldn't work on it. Make sense?

joe b.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Not a double standard. Casting a spell on an item doesn't make that item a "magic item" until said spell is permanent. It's simply a non-magic item with a spell effecting it. The polymorph aruguement is a basic change not a template (if you will) that is put over a non-state changed item/person.

So I can cast Greater Magic Weapon and Spikes on my club, and since it's still a 'non-magical club' (neither spell is permanent), I can then cast Shillelagh with no problem?

-Hyp.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Not a double standard. Casting a spell on an item doesn't make that item a "magic item" until said spell is permanent. It's simply a non-magic item with a spell effecting it. The polymorph aruguement is a basic change not a template (if you will) that is put over a non-state changed item/person.

In other words, the club's only a magic item because of the spell, and since the spell obviously works we cannot consider it to have changed the state of the club so that the spell couldn't work on it. Make sense?

joe b.

So my simple quarterstaff that has the bludgeoning equivalent of Keen Edge, (forgot the name) Greater Magic Weapon, Align Weapon, Bless Weapon, Disrupting Weapon, and Light cast on it can be targeted by Shillelagh, but my simple quarterstaff with Spellstaff on it cannot?

 

[Rystil Arden]

Heh, Smurf beat me to the punch My example is more ridiculous though, that's why it took longer to type.