D&D General Joe Manganiello: Compares Early 5E to BG 3 . How Important is Lore?

TwoSix

Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
Migrated from other continent? Escaped from Deep underground? Maybe they were always just off-camera in remote locations and recently started interacting with humans who mistook them for lizard folk? Maybe Bahamut spawned them into existence? Maybe they were just humanoid race #672 like drow, orcs, gnolls, xvarts, goblins, tritons, and tabaxi who spent the majority of their time hanging out in wizard dungeons?
I always assumed that pretty much any large fantasy setting (a la the Realms, Oerth, Eberron, etc.) had plenty of room to hide pocket communities of dozens of races.
 

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Distracted DM

Distracted DM
Supporter
I was a big Eberron fan, and still do like the setting.
As more of the 3e books released, they'd include "how to fit this race into Greyhawk/FR/Eberron/etc."

Some of the ideas for those "how to fit this in" entries made sense to me, and others didn't. The most difficult parts for me were when a player wanted to play something that had a "how to fit this in" section, but it really didn't jive with me and the character choice itself didn't fit in my perception of the setting.

I don't like turning settings into kitchen sinks- I made that mistake with my own setting for a while, because a player wants to play a loxodon or a vistani or something else. There are a lot of ways to handle this, some better than others, but that's a tangent I won't get into here.

It's very much personal preference... but I was happy that those "how to fit --- in XYZ setting" were sidebars. They weren't being added to the core setting experience, these were suggestions for how they COULD fit into your game/setting. They were optional... and not in the way that feats/multiclassing are "optional" in 5e. DMG variant rules are optional- but feats and multiclassing, supposedly optional, are actively supported and touted, so of course players are going to push for them- whether the DM wants them or not.

tl;dr: IMO if the core setting that you fell in love with doesn't become kitchen-sinked by default, "how dragonborn COULD fit into Greyhawk" suggestions from the book(s) are great! They're nice ideas that the DM can go with if they like them. But if they're presented as core ideas, the players will assume that they're there and available.
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Migrated from other continent? Escaped from Deep underground? Maybe they were always just off-camera in remote locations and recently started interacting with humans who mistook them for lizard folk? Maybe Bahamut spawned them into existence? Maybe they were just humanoid race #672 like drow, orcs, gnolls, xvarts, goblins, tritons, and tabaxi who spent the majority of their time hanging out in wizard dungeons?
Maybe. I would want the setting material to tell me which it is.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
The Flannaes is just a tiny part of the world, and the rest is not well developed. Dragonborn as rare Westerners found in the Flannaes would not be strange.

And Greyhawk is already way the anything goes Setting, in both 1E and 3E. Veery unlikely thst WotC will add much thst wasn't thrown at fhe Greyhawk wall in 3.x...
 

Remathilis

Legend
Maybe. I would want the setting material to tell me which it is.
The problem of course is the setting can only cover so much. There are ten races in the PHB and 20+ in the MotM. How many pages of the hypothetical Greyhawk book do you want explaining each of those to you? What happens when a new race like dhampir or hadozee are released?

So far, WotC has opted for basically three types of models when dealing with the races in settings:
1. Closed. A list of common races with the option to allow the DM to add more via travel. (Dragonlance, Theros, Ravnica)
2. Kitchen sink. Common races are explained and everything else is just assumed (Faerun, Wildemont, Eberron)
3. Multiverse. Touches every setting, anything goes (Planescape, Spelljammer, Ravenloft).

I see nothing wrong with any of those approaches
 

As I understand it 90% of the detailed part of Greyhawk is in the Flanaess - that is the Eastern third or so of one of the four continents on Oerth. (And Google tells me the far Western part of the same continent, the far side of the Celestial Empire, was mostly mapped in the 2001-2002 Chainmail miniatures game). If there are three and a half continents that are barely mapped, of which one is actively unnamed, I genuinely don't understand why there is any problem introducing strange peoples (all else being equal) from in the Celestial Empire/the far side of the Empire/one of the other three continents who washed up ashore/were captured as slaves/ships ran aground/whatever.
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
The problem of course is the setting can only cover so much. There are ten races in the PHB and 20+ in the MotM. How many pages of the hypothetical Greyhawk book do you want explaining each of those to you? What happens when a new race like dhampir or hadozee are released?

So far, WotC has opted for basically three types of models when dealing with the races in settings:
1. Closed. A list of common races with the option to allow the DM to add more via travel. (Dragonlance, Theros, Ravnica)
2. Kitchen sink. Common races are explained and everything else is just assumed (Faerun, Wildemont, Eberron)
3. Multiverse. Touches every setting, anything goes (Planescape, Spelljammer, Ravenloft).

I see nothing wrong with any of those approaches
So you'd be cool with option 1 for Greyhawk?
 


Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
I see no point. Greyhawk has never had prohibitions on races in 1e or 3e and was never curated prior. The only curation I've ever heard for Oerth comes from grognards who can't accept anything that Gary didn't write as canon.
So, Greyhawk is a kitchen sink then? Everything released should be there?
 

TwoSix

Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
So, Greyhawk is a kitchen sink then? Everything released should be there?
It certainly has a much stronger argument to be a kitchen sink than, say, Ravnica or Theros.

I could certainly see an argument for making it a more limited palette, dark and gritty kind of setting (I know we had threads making that point a few years ago), but that would be a sort of reboot, and I know that's extremely NOT your preference.
 

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