Judge/Rate my House Rules

[Riposte]

*Post edited to reflect new changes*

I wouldn't call myself a GREAT DM, especially when it comes to mechanics. This usually has me combining other people's good ideas more than being entirely original. So I feel like I need a second opinion just in case I may have messed up. If I'm doing something wrong by creating this thread, I apologize and suggest it to be deleted.

First things, I'd like to say I'm using the following "4e Fan Creations" to enhance my game:

*malcolm_n's Druid(http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=230397)
*saric's Bard(http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=231413)
*Stalker0's New Skill Challenge System (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=230567)
*pukunui's Aasimar(http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=229067)
*Nift's Multi-class Feats Revision(http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=230200)

I'm also allowing anything WotC's first 4e Dragon issues(Warforged, Illusion spells, etc) and will continue to allow most stuff. Okay, anyway, now to the actual house rules.

General

*Take 20 is back in almost exact form. Can't be used in Skill Challenges. Can't use be used with Knowledge-type Checks.

Race And Flavor

*Flavor:
-Dragonborn are Half-Dragons(but still keep the name). Can be Human, Elven, and Dwarven, but do not gain any benefits from those secondary races.
-Tiefling and Aasimar are identical(including visually) to what they were in 3e. Can be Human or Elven, but again no benefits from those secondary races.
-Eladrin are "Fey-touched"/Half-Fey Elves.
-None of the above have any real separate culture/nation much like Half-Elves.

*Aasimar: Same as link provided save for:
-+2 Wisdom, +2 attribute of their choice: Strength, Constitution, or Charisma.

*Dragonborn:
-+2 Strength, +2 Wisdom.

*Eladrin:
-Drop Longsword proficiency.

*Half-Elves:
-+2 Charisma, +2 any other attribute.
-Multi-Talented: Half-Elves do not need to fulfill any attribute prerequisites for feats with the [Multi-Class] tag. (please refer to Nift's thread linked above)

*Tiefling:
-+2 Intelligence, +2 attribute of their choice: Dexterity, Wisdom, or Charisma.

*Also allowing Warforged and Gnome.

Classes

*Ranger: (More like "Scouts")
-Perception is their auto Trained Skill.
-Prime Shot is only available to Archery Style Rangers.

*Warlord:
-Diplomacy or Intimidate is their auto Trained Skill. They can pick three others.

Feats

*Intelligence may take of the place of one attribute in certain feats' prerequisites. The Intelligence score must be equal to the old requirement. The feat can still be earned with the old requirements as normal. Feats are listed with the replaceable attribute requirement:

Expanded Spellbook (WIS)
Astral Fire (DEX or WIS)
Dark Fury (CON or WIS)
Spell Focus (CHA)

 

[mattdm]

*1-1-1 movement is taken out.

Have you tried it? It may feel painfully irrational, but in my experience it makes movement during play about moving rather than about counting, which is a huge win in practice.

*Half-Elves:
-+2 Charisma, +2 any other stat.
-Multi-Talented: Half-Elves do not need to fulfill any attribute prerequisites for Multi-Class feats.

As discussed elsewhere, +2 to any stat is a huge increase to any race and I don't think it should be taken lightly.

*Ranger: (More like "Scouts")
-Perception is their auto Trained Skill.
-"Archery Fighting Style" Ranger gain an unnamed +1 Attack Bonus to Ranged Attacks.

Hmmm. Again, have you tried this? Archery rangers already are pretty seriously good.




Anyway, overall this feels like a lot of changing things for the sake of changing 'em. What if you have a player who wants to play an Eladrin with a longsword? Why do they randomly lose that proficiency?

 

[the Jester]

Why?

I think it's far too early to make such sweeping changes. I always play a new edition by the book for the first several months so that we can see how the pieces fit together. Afterwards, I'll house rule like crazy- but until I know what works as-is and what doesn't, I have no intention of whacking my game out of balance.

In other words, be careful- you're proposing a lot of changes and I don't see any real payoff.

 

[Mengu]

I'll agree with mattdm's comment on +2 to any stat.

*Dragonborn:
-+2 Strength, +2 Constitution.

I'd be careful with this. It's already irksome to me that Warforged get +2 Str and Con. For a fighter, the choice between a dwarf and a dragonborn is a meaningful choice with RAW. You're just about eliminating that choice.

*Eladrin:
-Drop Longsword proficiency.

Why?

-"Archery Fighting Style" Ranger gain an unnamed +1 Attack Bonus to Ranged Attacks.

I wouldn't recommend this. Twin Strike is already crazy good without any bonus. If you do this, I would at the very least remove Prime Shot.

 

[Nebulous]

Why?

I think it's far too early to make such sweeping changes. I always play a new edition by the book for the first several months so that we can see how the pieces fit together. Afterwards, I'll house rule like crazy- but until I know what works as-is and what doesn't, I have no intention of whacking my game out of balance.

In other words, be careful- you're proposing a lot of changes and I don't see any real payoff.

Agreed. I don't think many people have played enough 4e (aside from the designers) to start house ruling stuff away. I plan to do it, yes, but not yet.

 

[Lord Xtheth]

*Half-Elves:
-+2 Charisma, +2 any other stat.
-Multi-Talented: Half-Elves do not need to fulfill any attribute prerequisites for Multi-Class feats.

Wow, you realy want your half elf to be the power race don't you? I mean Humans get +2 to any one score, and that seems to REPLACE the static +2 to 2 scores for the rest of the races. In terms of balance, I personaly think this is a little bit of "tipping the scales" in favour of half-elves.

 

[Riposte]

So far 1-1-1, hasn't annoyed too much, but it still bothers me... I might just keep it in. I'll just let my players decide really, least interest in this.

Dropping Eladrin's longsword has to do with them not having much of a culture. May replace with bows since they are elves. Am I wrong in thinking taking this away has minimal consequence?

Dragonborns stat increase could be too favoring, I see. I was hoping to take away the Charisma because I think too many races have that. I guess Wisdom would be the next best choice?

I honestly think Half-Elves could use a free attribute boost like that, but I could see the problem with Tiefling and Aasimar since they are not as weak in my humble opinion. Maybe I'll limit Tiefling to Dex, Wis, or Cha while limiting the Aasimar to Str, Con, or Cha.

Okay, how about this in its place: Prime Shot is Archery Style Ranger only? The problem I have with Ranger is that Archery path doesn't seem much better at Archery than other Rangers until paragon levels... which I don't think I'll be playing that high.

Aside from adding Take 20, 1-1-1, and Ranger adjustment, I don't know if these would count as sweeping changes really. Maybe I lack foresight because the edition is new. I thank you for the advice so far.

Does that mean everything else(Take 20, Intelligence better at nabbing feats, two class main trained skill changes) is in the clear? Also, I'd love to see commenting on the ideas adjusted in this post.

 

[Mengu]

Dropping Eladrin's longsword has to do with them not having much of a culture. May replace with bows since they are elves. Am I wrong in thinking taking this away has minimal consequence?

It eliminates a certain build someone may want to play. I don't see the point, but you're right in that the consequence will be minimal.

Dragonborns stat increase could be too favoring, I see. I was hoping to take away the Charisma because I think too many races have that. I guess Wisdom would be the next best choice?

I don't have an answer to this other than it moves the stereotypes around a bit. I don't feel like spending the time to see if anything goes out of whack.

I honestly think Half-Elves could use a free attribute boost like that, but I could see the problem with Tiefling and Aasimar since they are not as weak in my humble opinion. Maybe I'll limit Tiefling to Dex, Wis, or Cha while limiting the Aasimar to Str, Con, or Cha.

Again, I don't see anything wrong with leaving these stats be. The flexibility will artificially gravitate players towards these races.

Okay, how about this in its place: Prime Shot is Archery Style Ranger only? The problem I have with Ranger is that Archery path doesn't seem much better at Archery than other Rangers until paragon levels... which I don't think I'll be playing that high.

Don't have a problem with this, it will have very small impact.

Does that mean everything else(Take 20, Intelligence better at nabbing feats, two class main trained skill changes) is in the clear?

Don't have a problem with those, though I don't entirely see the reason behind the proposed changes, other than Take 20.

 

[mattdm]

\
Dropping Eladrin's longsword has to do with them not having much of a culture. May replace with bows since they are elves. Am I wrong in thinking taking this away has minimal consequence?

Well, I think I'd be inclined to leave it alone exactly because it has minimal impact. Why house rule when you don't have to? Instead, if the problem is that there's not much of a culture, add some interesting eladrin culture background to your campaign world. And maybe a player had an longsword-wielding Eladrin cleric in mind, and now it's seemly arbitrarily out.

I honestly think Half-Elves could use a free attribute boost like that, but I could see the problem with Tiefling and Aasimar since they are not as weak in my humble opinion. Maybe I'll limit Tiefling to Dex, Wis, or Cha while limiting the Aasimar to Str, Con, or Cha.

Still makes those races better than anything else by a long shot. And the poor human has its thing overshadowed.

For half elf, how about leaving the ability bonus as is, but allowing the Dilettante ability to change any Str or Dex power attack roll to Con, and Int and Wis to Cha? Nifft, in another thread, strongly believes that simply adding that ability as a half elf feat is all the boost the race needs.

Okay, how about this in its place: Prime Shot is Archery Style Ranger only? The problem I have with Ranger is that Archery path doesn't seem much better at Archery than other Rangers until paragon levels... which I don't think I'll be playing that high.

If one ranger takes archery-focused powers and concentrates wealth on getting a good bow, that ranger will be much better at archery than one who follows the melee path. I don't think there's a problem here.

Does that mean everything else(Take 20, Intelligence better at nabbing feats, two class main trained skill changes) is in the clear? Also, I'd love to see commenting on the ideas adjusted in this post.

Adding back Take 20 isn't really a change — it's just saving time. I think somewhere in the DMG actually suggests using it when appropriate. (It's probably not in the PH because it can get confusing to explain at the same time as Take 10.)

I think making Intelligence better at getting feats is a mistake. At first I thought you hadn't considered how awesome that makes the wizard (who pretty much must have high int), but then I noticed from the examples that this is actually your intent. The feat selection prereqs seem very carefully designed to reward well-rounded characters and to discourage one-trick-pony high-int-ditch-the-rest wizards. So although I didn't comment on it earlier, I think that's probably one of the most far-reaching changes here.

The trained skill thing falls under "really minor change / may be annoying to players who had a concept in mind / extra thing to remember / so why bother". For rangers, pretty much everyone is going to pick Perception (unless for some weird reason the DM doesn't use that skill much — in our games, it's Skill #1) anyway, so basically what you're saying is that they don't have to take Dungeoneering or Nature. For warlords, though, you're just kinda arbitrarily taking one very specific choice (trained in Athletics, Endurance, Heal, and History). What's so wrong with that option that it deserves an special exception?