D&D 5E June 17 Legend & Lore - Playtesting Dragons

[Nymrohd]

I have, always.

In 1at/2nd Ed 10th level + was huge, same in 3rd Ed, it just released that absurd ELH.

I do not need a bigger modifier added to my d20 roll to feel epic play.

I don't think any of us do either. But the ability to destroy anyone who is of lower level, handle scores of high level creatures and be on par with the big names of D&D is what most consider epic. And you won't be able to handle the pit fiend patrols of Nessus unless you are there

 

[Sunseeker]

I have, always.

In 1at/2nd Ed 10th level + was huge, same in 3rd Ed, it just released that absurd ELH.

I do not need a bigger modifier added to my d20 roll to feel epic play.

I remain ever thankful WOTC came to your house and burned your 1&2e books to facilitate the need for them to create a retroclone for you to rebuy them. /sarcasm

I likewise remain confused as to why, if you have an edition that plays in the manner that you want, that you should need to buy another edition that plays in the exact same manner.

Modifers don't need to be "huge" for epic play, I never said nor suggested that. I suggested that these "legendary" abilities(which are more or less common run-of-the mill stuff for 4e play) would be a good suit for some ADDITIONAL area of the game that goes BEYOND the normal range of 1-20. I mean jeeze guys, it's not like I'm forcing you to go out and play gods and deities as part of your regular session. This would be the optional of the optional for the niche of us who do enjoy that god-level battles with deities and other ancient figures of creation.

It comes down to largely, I don't feel I can fit a "full" game in 10 levels if "epic" now starts at 11. It'd basically be sticking my players at a single level for ages, and my players and I simply don't enjoy that. It's fine and dandy when you're using XP budgets, but for levels-as-plot-points it's utterly useless because there's simply too few.

 

[Obryn]

It comes down to largely, I don't feel I can fit a "full" game in 10 levels if "epic" now starts at 11. It'd basically be sticking my players at a single level for ages, and my players and I simply don't enjoy that. It's fine and dandy when you're using XP budgets, but for levels-as-plot-points it's utterly useless because there's simply too few.

Even more critically, remember that right now, 20th level in Next isn't really all that "epic." At least not as I define it. I think there should be a level at which orcs and goblins are basically disposable cannon-fodder for a Fighter. And climbing up greased ropes is as easy as walking for a Thief. This is the level at which wizards and clerics are flinging around crazy spells like Wish, so they're already epic in that sense. It should be opened up to everyone else, too.

-O

 

[Nymrohd]

Another point I'd make is that there is a different between the word epic (as in epic level) and epic (as in epic fantasy). You can have epic fantasy from level 1 if you want. It's all about storytelling. But epic level is something that has been around in D&D in some way or another in every single edition. And it has been done relatively badly in every single edition. 4E could have done something better if power levels did not feel so constrained by the rigid chasis (or if we had a DMG 3 and additional epic support but that did not happen cause the edition was cut short).
So I'd like to hope that for once in DDN epic is a concern. The thing is, if Asmodeus is in the MM as a level appropriate encounter for lvl 20 characters then that's it. 20 should be max, cause by lore Asmodeus would only be fought in Nessus with an infinite army of max health pit fiends and that's as epic as it gets.
D&D has a massive bestiary. And it is quite full at the highest levels. Granularity has often been a problem; your average demon lord should be stronger than a balor, but any balor with a class level or two (and appropriate gear) would be able to point Juiblex to dust. This is why some of us need epic levels; so that the hierarchy is clear (and we have somewhere to ascend to).

 

[Weather Report]

I remain ever thankful WOTC came to your house and burned your 1&2e books to facilitate the need for them to create a retroclone for you to rebuy them. /sarcasm

I likewise remain confused as to why, if you have an edition that plays in the manner that you want, that you should need to buy another edition that plays in the exact same manner.

Wow, how utterly unnecessary, untrue, vulgar and awful, not to mention off-topic and embarrassing, whoa, I gave you the benefit of the doubt, but are obviously reprehensible in discourse...

 

[Sunseeker]

Wow, how utterly unnecessary, untrue, vulgar and awful, not to mention off-topic and embarrassing, whoa, I gave you the benefit of the doubt, but are obviously reprehensible in discourse...

No you didn't. You barely gave my thoughts the time of day. Poo-pooing the idea of additional content beyond what DDN determines as "epic" into what has traditionally been defined as epic as malarky. The whole point of DDN is to satisfy a wide range of playstyles with modular material, and here I suggested that a more traditional epic-style conent could be added, and you waived it off.

And vulgar? Oh psshaw, that was sarcastic but completly tame.

And as for me being reprehensible? Well, im not the one insulting other players.

 

[Umbran]

Folks,

Don't make it personal. Address the logic of the post, not the person of the poster.

We expect you to show respect for each other. If you can't do that, we suggest you hold your posts until you can.