Justifying high level 'guards', 'pirates', 'soldiers', 'assassins', etc.

[blargney the second]

I have mid- to high-level NPCs all over the place when I'm DMing. They're just not on stage until they're needed. Heck, I usually assume that any adult starts at 3rd to 5th level, and they simply range upwards from there.

I suppose it comes down to a personal threshold of believability. I set mine high and just play the game. *shrug*
-blarg

 

[Jack99]

IMC, level 15 minions (if I would ever use them) would be something like the private guard of something/someone really powerful. Regular guards (minions) won't make it past 6th-8th level at the most.

 

[Isildrae Kyuss]

Keeping the level of such guards as a constant is a good idea. scale the xp accordingly. You should find that the players last longer having to battle through critters below their level but will get worn down by attrition. Through in the odd high-end scale one-off monster, a lurking monster or trapped demon and the players won't stay complacent.

 

[Gort]

It seems there should come a time where only extraordinary examples from among mortal races should pose any threat to the PCs.

Make them drow. The entire race is 150-year old badasses who've trained in combat for a century each, but someone still has to pull guard duty.

 

[DragonLancer]

I don't see a problem up to a point. Without some guardsmen, assassin's... etcto challenge the party whats the point? I don't see that players get enjoyment out of their 25th level characters beating the snot out of a bunch of 1st/2nd level guards more than once. To some extent, the campaign world does need to escalate along with the characters.

 

[Runestar]

I think the question is - where do they come from, and why are they doing mundane tasks such as guard duty when their talents would obviously have them promoted to much more important responsibilities?

You won't see a lv20 fighter doing guard duty at the entrance of a mall...it would be a simple waste of resources!

 

[Gold Roger]

Just to clear things up a bit, the adventure in question doesn't have a bunch of mid paragon level guards just standing there on duty or anything like that.

It does have an assassination attempt and a bunch of pirates at the level, which I have no problem. I'd assume that these are no ordinary pirates, but one of the "finest" pirate crews out there, a true terror of the sea.

It should also be noted that in 4th edition equal level npcs are by no means true equals to the PCs. PCs are more like elites of their level. And a 15th level minion certainly isn't really a 15th level character. He's more like a tenth or eighth level character that is stated differently because at that level he represents a different kind of challange to the PC's.

Also I'd say that 15th leve is, over all, of a different quality than it was in other editions. In older editions 15th level was the beginning of the very high level, while today a 15th level char is only at exactly mid level.

The bottom line is that for me normal human and humanoid npcs of paragon level and minions into early epic level are ok if they represent elites and exceptional groups.

I'd be willing to even accept groups of epic level npcs if they represent ruly legendary organisations. An example for this would be a truly exalted order of knights, whose normal members could be about one hundret epic level minions in relation to epic PC's (paragon characters in "real" levels) and whose inner circle would be about 10 to 20 epic npcs, maybe led by an elite.

 

[S'mon]

I'd be willing to even accept groups of epic level npcs if they represent ruly legendary organisations. An example for this would be a truly exalted order of knights, whose normal members could be about one hundret epic level minions in relation to epic PC's (paragon characters in "real" levels) and whose inner circle would be about 10 to 20 epic npcs, maybe led by an elite.

Yeah, I think that's the best approach in 4e. The same NPC can be classed as an Elite Solo, Paragon regular NPC, or Epic Minion, depending on the level of the PCs when they interact with him.

 

[cangrejoide]

This is one area where 4E kind of doesn't deliver on the promise that the heroes are "special". The PC's are special because they are doing the deeds that no one else is doing and not always because they are the only ones who can.

Eventually PC's will face NPC's with classes and levels much like them in ability but on the other team. From a logic standpoint there have to be NPC's with the same abilities and skills as the PC's, or else they never could have trained.

Well I don't see what's different now from earlier editions, just pick any high level old module and you will see a lot of high level guards/mooks. This has been a staple of D&D as long as I can remember.

But if this bothers you , just change the guards nature to high level creatures or just make em into mooks and try to challenge your PCs another way.

 

[Weregrognard]

Short Answer: Like people said: it's a metagame thing, don't think about it.

Long Answer: Tougher heroes attract the attention of tougher enemies. Ex. 1: You may have bested Lord Shacklethorne's lowly goons in the past, but now he has spared no expense in getting rid of your meddling selves. He has hired the dreaded Shadow Knives of Zalthur Mountain. Once you're marked by the Shadow Knives, you might as well write your will. Ex. 2: It is said the fortress of Greyheim is impregnable, not so much because of its formidable defenses, but also because it is the home of the elite Order of the Cracked Anvil, whose members have pledged their lives to guard it. Ex. 3: Mate, yer takin' on Bloody Salvros?! They say his crew is made up not only of the cruelest scallawags this side of the Four Seas, but that he also tortured a sea hag into giving him the secret of controlling strange and unwholesome things from beyond the Deep.