Justifying high level 'guards', 'pirates', 'soldiers', 'assassins', etc.

[Fallen Seraph]

I view it just like I view the PCs. If the PCs exist at such levels then others must as well, some off ill-repute included. Not many but some.

They simply are less relevant in earlier levels since the PCs have not yet entered into such a range of responsibility as to be noticed by them.

 

[Mercule]

Because the PCs are facing tougher organizations. If a group of 15th level PCs wanted to attack a large city, they could mow through the entirety of the city watch, the militia, 90% of the lord's soldiers/knights, 90% of the clergy, and 90% of the wizard guild without breaking a sweat. Of that remaining 10% of the elites, 90% would be a gentle workout. That last fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction would be a reasonable match for the 15th level party.

For most PC-race-centric adventures, you're only dealing with that ultra-elite portion. It may be because they're plotting evil away from prying eyes, because they're secreting themselves in an otherwise good town, because the PCs get by the lesser guards with a swagger and grin that's not worth mentioning, or some other reason.

I haven't read the Sea Reavers, yet, but if they truly are just shlubs statted as 15th level foes, it's bad adventure design. On the other hand, if there's something special about them, even if it's just that they're essentially adventurers with a pirate motif, then I'm perfectly fine with one ultra-elite pirate ship out there.

 

[Spatula]

So right now I'm reading through the Sea Reavers adventure from today's Dungeon article. Not to give away any spoilers, but there are some high level (15th) human enemies. How do you justify random guards, assassins, etc. or whatnot being above, say 6th or maybe 8th level?

They're very good at their job, elite pirates or what have you. But I think this is why paragon and epic games are (by the book) supposed to shift the action aware from fighting humans and towards adventures against bigger and badder monsters.

Generally speaking though, it doesn't bother me, up to a point. Really high level humans should be something special and rare, but what qualifies as "really high level" will differ from person to person. Dausuul and cangrejoide make a good point in that this is a problem inherent with D&D's power curve, and always has been an issue with the game.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

The same way you justify an acrobatics check to avoid slipping on a pool of water at lvl 30 having a DC of 28 while, a lvl 1 character on the very same pool of water would need only to roll a 10.

Short answer: just don't.

This

 

[Silver Moon]

The short answer is $, when the main villain has enough of it and wants to really keep his home/treasure/family safe he'll pay top dollar for high calibur guards.

There are lots of other reasons too why other high-level characters might just happen to be hanging around a palace/keep/ship/headquarters - relatives, friends, friends of relatives, even rival adventurer simultaneously breaking in.

 

[Treebore]

Its because my campaign world is a world, not a vacuum in which the players play. There are 100's of millions of classed races in my world and they are all doing something to improve themselves, to get ahead, to become rich or richer.

If my players expect a town guard to be the same level he was when they were last here 6 months ago thats their fault. He survived a vampire break out and actually survived in helping killing 8 vampire spawn, 3 full vampires, and hopefully the vampire lord herself! The PC's missed out on one heck of a battle! If they buy the guard a few beers after his shift he'll tell them all about it. Oh, and that was just last week! The week before were rats broke out from the sewers and started kidnapping, killing, burning, etc...! Buy me dinner and I'll tell you about that one too!

So I have high level guards, low level guards, etc... because my world is dynamic, not a vacuum form fitted to my players PC's.

 

[Snoweel]

I think some of you are missing the point of what levels represent.

They're not a measure of the absolute power of the NPCs in a game world; they are a measure of their power relative to the PCs. That's all.

When the PCs aren't 'on-screen' nobody has levels. When the PCs do appear, levels are assigned to anybody who interacts with them but those levels are not tattood on the NPCs' foreheads.

As for PC levels, they are just another way of distributing reward - as you gain levels you gain new abilities though your absolute power level doesn't necessarily scale (in reference to the game world) the way it appears to on the character sheet.

So if your PCs never fight the guards then nobody ever needs to know their level. If they do fight the guards, the players still needn't know their level - it is an abstraction. So your 10th level party fighting 6th level minions only knows that the guards are an easy fight. If a 2nd level party came by the next day and fought the exact same guards they'd find the now-1st-level-minions slightly less easy.

And if the 2nd level PCs had to interact with the 10th level PCs, shattering the house of cards? Now that's poor adventure design. 10th level PCs and 2nd level PCs shouldn't exist in the same universe.

4e is a game, not a simulation. That might suck for those who like to spend all their spare time statting up their entire game world when they should be outside getting some exercise but that's the way it is. Follow the DMG's advice - "don't overprepare your campaign" (151).

 

[Kishin]

I think some of you are missing the point of what levels represent.

They're not a measure of the absolute power of the NPCs in a game world; they are a measure of their power relative to the PCs. That's all.

When the PCs aren't 'on-screen' nobody has levels. When the PCs do appear, levels are assigned to anybody who interacts with them but those levels are not tattood on the NPCs' foreheads.

As for PC levels, they are just another way of distributing reward - as you gain levels you gain new abilities though your absolute power level doesn't necessarily scale (in reference to the game world) the way it appears to on the character sheet.

So if your PCs never fight the guards then nobody ever needs to know their level. If they do fight the guards, the players still needn't know their level - it is an abstraction. So your 10th level party fighting 6th level minions only knows that the guards are an easy fight. If a 2nd level party came by the next day and fought the exact same guards they'd find the now-1st-level-minions slightly less easy.

QFT, a hundred times over.

4E doesn't concern itself with the 'off screen interaction' of NPC on NPC. Just how the NPCs interact with the PCs. Its deliberate design within the system.

 

[Jack the Red]

The general rule with City Guard police types is that, if they are successfully keeping order (not, eg, Rio de Janeiro police) then they must be tougher than their typical opposition.

Hey, brazilian policeman are not low-level, they are just CE.

I think it depends on the setting, I've DMed a pirate fantasy setting for 3.5 that had all the pirates level 5+, (partly that was what kept them stronger then any city guard). So when the players were facing a pirate, they knew it was serious business.

 

[Walknot]

You play in a world where your PC's can progress quickly, could be a week per level if events allow constant adventuring, so that in less than 1 year in game you are a legendary PC. Given that NPC's could do the same (or even at 1/10 the speed), then you are gonna have plenty of high level foes.

As to why you are not encountering these high level NPC's and getting killed off early on, well that would not be much of a story. Anyway, the hi-level evil leader won't pay any more attention to your group than the hi-level good leader. In both cases, they have people for that sort of thing, and that is who you interact with.