D&D General Kender in AD&D

[GMforPowergamers]

People who have an issue with the way Kender are played due to some bad apple they played with is because that player was already an awful player. Someone who wanted to cause grief.

interesting thesis... but as a vocal hater of kender in games (not stories per say) I must rebuff this.

I can list (and even drop names) of problem players. I can also say that the 4 that come to mind right away only 1 has ever even asked to play a kender (and she wasn't even the worst of her stories when she did).

I can also list of the least problmatic players I have DM/played with... but most fall somewhere between.

my problem is that players that 9/10 of the time are great helpful and fun...still run naughty word kenders.

My second problem is the strange mindcontrol they put everyone under "everyone likes them" even when by fluff most store owners and guards in bazars should hate them.

My third is mor problmatic... why can't they learn the concept of personal property? I can understand THEY don't use it in there communities, but when traveling through OTHER communities even for decaids they CANNOT learn 'people don't want you to borrow without asking'

Or you simply read what others have complained about and joined in without any actual research.

yup... people don't like something you like so they must be either lieing or misunderstanding... nobody can honestly come by the reverse opinion then you... not a greatplace to start.

If you genuinely don’t like them as they are presented in the books and lore, awesome. Though the new Kender seem to keep the “misunderstood thieves” reputation but for some reason it’s all magic now. So I guess that really doesn’t change for you.

I will still never allow a kender at my table. I will still be vocal if I am in a game and one shows up... but the magic summon an item thing does help

 

[GMforPowergamers]

The steelman version is kender are presented in a way that encourages in-character behaviour likely to aggravate other players.

This encouragement, in addition to being present in the fiction, is shown above. While technically the passages make reference to kender behaviour in their communities, there is nothing to indicate their behaviour is any different outside of them. Indeed, the fiction indicates that they do behave the same way outside of their communities.

that is what makes it the worst (even before the bad racists redric it reproposes) that GOOD roleplayers who LIKE tasslehoff are ENCOURAGED to be jerks

 

[Fifth Element]

I honestly think that the problem with the kenders is not specifically the stealing, is that it basically encourages the player to be a wangrod. Some will do it by stealing, others by just doing whatever floats through their mind, some will more or less on purpose put spokes in other players' plans, some will just be annoying as Tass was.

Indeed. It's not just the stealing. Part of what I quoted above involved barraging non-kender with constant questions and "a million lies." Kender are presented as being extremely irritating to non-kender. It's even enforced with the taunting mechanic.

 

[Fifth Element]

If you can’t roleplay something without being annoying, that’s on you.

The guidance provided in the book on how kender behave explicitly states that non-kender find them extremely annoying, and provides numerous reasons why, including constant theft of belongings. Roleplaying a kender to not be annoying means you have to ignore the canonical description of how kender behave. That's the issue.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Indeed, if the "how had D&D changed over the decades" thread has taught me anything, it's that some people have only ever played with people who behave like 14-year-old edgelords.

It's the Disney-fication of D&D.

WE ARE ALL PETER PAN!

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Kender are presented as being extremely irritating to non-kender. It's even enforced with the taunting mechanic.

and this is mixed with the flavor text that everyone loves them and if you talk bad about them YOU are seen as the wrong one...

 

[eyeheartawk]

It's the Disney-fication of D&D.

WE ARE ALL PETER PAN!

Yeah, whatever, man.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Yeah, whatever, man.

I'm DEFINITELY crunchy.

 

[eyeheartawk]

I'm DEFINITELY crunchy.

Yeah, to follow the whole Naked Lunch thing, I figure, if you're going to merge everyone into one being, you're gonna get ground really smooth, you know?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Yeah, whatever, man.

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i would so buy Katra peanut butter.... but can i also get Adora Jelly? they go together perfectly...