D&D General Keys from the Golden Vault look through.

dave2008

Legend
And is a different genre.

I'm not trying to yuck anyone's yum here, but heist adventures aren't just about the actual structure of the adventure, but the nature of what you're doing and why.

Ocean's 11 = heist

Mission: Impossible, although similar in structure != heist
Not IMO. I don't see a need to gatekeep the definition of a "heist" as you do. Heck, even the "Ocean" movies trailed away from making the heist simply about personal gain. There is no problem with running the type of heist you want (and many of the Adventures in Golden Vault can be run that way), but it also perfectly legitimate to run a different type of heist.
 

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Not IMO. I don't see a need to gatekeep the definition of a "heist" as you do. Heck, even the "Ocean" movies trailed away from making the heist simply about personal gain. There is no problem with running the type of heist you want (and many of the Adventures in Golden Vault can be run that way), but it also perfectly legitimate to run a different type of heist.
Yeah, its an extremely common trope for the people carrying out a heist to be heroic. E.g. Tower Heist, Ant Man. And of course, the entire Mission Impossible TV series was a heist show.
 

Reynard

Legend
Not IMO. I don't see a need to gatekeep the definition of a "heist" as you do. Heck, even the "Ocean" movies trailed away from making the heist simply about personal gain. There is no problem with running the type of heist you want (and many of the Adventures in Golden Vault can be run that way), but it also perfectly legitimate to run a different type of heist.
I'm not sure that is an appropriate use of "gatekeep" but otherwise I agree. A "heist" is an activity and is not defined by its motivation.
 


Emoshin

So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish
Not all gold dragon's are lawful good: end of story. It is not that hard.
What you quoted, was in context of a lawful good gold dragon. If the dragon is not lawful good, then it's a different story.

It's not that hard for you to read what people write and respond in context. End of story.
 

Reynard

Legend
What you quoted, was in context of a lawful good gold dragon. If the dragon is not lawful good, then it's a different story.

It's not that hard for you to read what people write and respond in context. End of story.
It's also not that hard to realize people interpret alignments differently, often in the context of the creature, time, culture or genre at play. Lawful Good in a heist is very different than Lawful Good in an Arthurian romance.

Or, we just dump the stupid idea entirely and let players and GMs play the characters, creatures and organizations based on their motivations and ideals, bonds and flaws.
 

Emoshin

So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish
It's also not that hard to realize people interpret alignments differently, often in the context of the creature, time, culture or genre at play. Lawful Good in a heist is very different than Lawful Good in an Arthurian romance.
If I say X, then I know what I meant. If someone quotes me, and says actually it's Y, it's not hard to see these subjective interpretations being articulated as arguments.

Or, we just dump the stupid idea entirely and let players and GMs play the characters, creatures and organizations based on their motivations and ideals, bonds and flaws.
People have tried -- and failed -- to dump alignment in D&D for years.
 





dave2008

Legend
What you quoted, was in context of a lawful good gold dragon. If the dragon is not lawful good, then it's a different story.

It's not that hard for you to read what people write and respond in context. End of story.
Sorry. In an earlier comment you said by RAW gold dragons couldn't be anything but lawful good. I pointed out how that wasn't true in the MM and you never responded. So I mistakenly thought you were still talking about I misunderstanding of RAW. I missed the comments in between, my apologies.
 



Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
What you quoted, was in context of a lawful good gold dragon. If the dragon is not lawful good, then it's a different story.

It's not that hard for you to read what people write and respond in context. End of story.
In D&D lawful can mean other things than "follows the laws." Also end of story. Let's see if this story can end as often as Brady's football career. :)
 

Emoshin

So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish
In D&D lawful can mean other things than "follows the laws." Also end of story. Let's see if this story can end as often as Brady's football career. :)
Luckily for us, I don't actually enjoy arguing. Arguing is only an ends to a means, where the means is some sort of progress. So end of story.
 

Clint_L

Hero
If I say X, then I know what I meant. If someone quotes me, and says actually it's Y, it's not hard to see these subjective interpretations being articulated as arguments.


People have tried -- and failed -- to dump alignment in D&D for years.
It's not hard. I haven't used alignment in decades. Removing it from the game makes the story much more sensible, in my experience. YVMV.

It's fine as a optional rule, which is what it has become. It's a fun artifact of D&D's origins, and I happily ignore it.
 

Emoshin

So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish
It's not hard. I haven't used alignment in decades. Removing it from the game makes the story much more sensible, in my experience. YVMV.
In my game, I have alignment but it's just a very vague frame of reference and it barely has any weight.

I just find myself engaging with alignment references on Enworld because that's a shared terminology that keeps going around

To @dave2008 's earlier point, I regret even bringing it up with metallic dragons in general. I was incorrect on the RAW interpretation (I forgot that was changed) which in itself was always jumping off an earlier note about the Golden Vault's alignment
 

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