D&D 5E Killing is bad: how to establish morality

[bedir than]

The simplest change is to give XP for "defeating" an enemy. Sure, you could get that by killing them, or by convincing them that they are no longer the enemy, or capturing them, or bribing them, or etc.

Doing this creates in game benefits for doing the moral thing, while allowing the players to determine the style of game they want.

 

[Warbringer]

Always have given the players the option of choosing whether a killing blow is incapacitation or death.

As to the moralist view - might as well complain chess is violent

 

[Beleriphon]

As a GM, I don't mind having people come back to haunt the players for making the "good" decisions; it fits with the idea that doing the right thing is often the hardest option. But sometimes I reward it down the road -- maybe that goblin you let go and gave some food to get him started became a warchief later, or maybe the brigand was the prodigal son of a noble and his defeat (and release) shaped him up and earned you a contact in the city. That kind of thing.

I'm fond of the warchief idea. The comic willsaveworldforgold.com plays with his by having a recurring goblin minion the group names Moopy keep showing up, basically giving into the party after being threatended or bribed, and then leaving.

 

[discosoc]

I'm fond of the warchief idea. The comic willsaveworldforgold.com plays with his by having a recurring goblin minion the group names Moopy keep showing up, basically giving into the party after being threatended or bribed, and then leaving.

My Tiamat campaign had goblins helping with last battle because I turned a captured goblin from the first few sessions into a warchief. The goblin sappers damn near leveled half the temple (I turned them into an "Earthquake" effect, for the purpose of scoring). It was actually kind of fun, because that whole campaign the group was getting tired of dealing with the political bull-s--- of various "good" factions not wanting to help until they dealt with random problems, etc, and here the goblins were like "we'll die for you because you gave our leader food 3 years ago..."

 

[Maxperson]

There's a thing I notice in fiction that I feel falls away in rpgs sometimes. The heroes don't kill outside of the heat of battle, and even then, they still try to not kill. Countless times I've seen heroes put themselves in bad situations because they let someone go or they take them to prison instead of just snapping their neck early. From Luke Cage to Fin and Han to whoever.

Are inspiration points a good enough mechanic to reward players making in character decisions that aren't the best from a strict stand point? Taking a prisoner instead of just killing them, for instance.

Sure, it's good enough. Personally, though, I like to award extra experience when a player roleplays his PC to the detriment of the character and the roleplay fits the PC.

 

[Xeviat]

I don't like extra experience because I just have people level when I want them to.


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[Shasarak]

There's a thing I notice in fiction that I feel falls away in rpgs sometimes. The heroes don't kill outside of the heat of battle, and even then, they still try to not kill. Countless times I've seen heroes put themselves in bad situations because they let someone go or they take them to prison instead of just snapping their neck early. From Luke Cage to Fin and Han to whoever.

I must be reading the wrong type of fiction, I guess.

 

[JeffB]

Might want to give Papers & Paychecks a whirl.

 

[mellored]

A lot of fiction doesn't have a problem killing unidentified minions. Storm troopers and other masked guards die by the thousands. If you can't see their face, they have no identity. They also use robots, or zombies, and other "sub-humans" to get around it.


It's not about killing in general, you'd starve if you didn't kill the trees babies (fruit /nuts), it's about killing things you know.


Which gives me an idea for a new background, raised by trents. Doesn't eat plants, only meat. Has real emotional term oil about farmers who help plants just to kill them.

 

[pdzoch]

One of the aspects that seems to be missing from this topic is the maturity of the players and how they deal with morality. I often have very young players. Moral challenges and moral ambiguity are difficult concepts and I avoid presenting those elements in the game at their early age.

The heroes fight monsters. The monsters are not human. Monsters are evil. The monsters are unwavering in their commitment to destroy, execute their plans, and be evil. The heroes defeat evil.

Later, evil humans in the form of bandits, despots, necromancers, etc. come into the game. These humans are clearly evil and are unredeemable.

Eventually, I do introduce moral challenges: such as the defenseless monster, the pitiful monster, the surrendering monster, and the negotiating monster. How they act in those situations has an effect on their world and how the world treats the characters.

The land still has a law. And breaking the law will have consequences. Unwarranted casual slaying of anything will result in negative consequences: arrest, revenge, denial of services/favors/aid, etc. Reputations are ruined in these situations and the "murder" will need to be atoned for before the reputation as a hero is restored.

Snarky comments from kings and lords, archmages and high clerics, and bards and patrons, are stinging rebuke for character misconduct, even if they acted in a grey area. (sure, goblins are evil, but the one they killed was defenseless and chained to a pillar; so now the party is viewed as merciless and bloodthirsty, which is not a good reputation for a good party or one with a paladin.)

Rogues, which operate one the edges of the law in the first place, are most susceptible to immoral play. As heroes, their past transgressions are somewhat forgiven and any practice of their larcenous arts for the greater good is winked at. However, being associated with immoral acts, murder, etc. now causes them to run the risk of arrest anytime they venture near law enforcement as they are already known criminals and this immoral act only proves that they are worse than thought and must be locked up.

The world, even the fantasy world, is the best corrective measure to immoral character activity.

In the end, they could never become so powerful they are held unaccountable for their activities. In this fantasy setting, there is always a more powerful warrior, more powerful wizard, dragon, giant, demi-god or god that can exact retribution.