Knowledge [Local] Solved !

[Rassilon]

By George I think I've got it!

Knowledge [Local] has been bothering me. Either every region requires taking a new "stream" of the skill, meaning that it is very hard to be an expert on 3 places, or every rank is seen to add a new region, as well as increase one's overall competence, meaning that 10 ranks makes one an expert on 10 places, even if it strains credulity. So, here is my solution.

(note: I'm sure others have come up with this - if so, yay for all of us, and I don't remember copying off anyone).

This solution does cost in the elegance of "mechanics", but I think is worth it:

First Off, any number of Ranks in Knowledge [Local] is always for one's home region. Taking a Realms example, Knowledge [Local] (Waterdeep). One rank or ten ranks applies to Waterdeep. But, if a player wants to add another region to 'know locally' about (perhaps from being there, or studying, etc) they add a rank in the region (say, Cormyr) seperately. This does not increase the number of ranks in Knpowledge [Local] Waterdeep per se, but Knowledge [Local] can now be used for Waterdeep and Cormyr.

It is kind of a cross between the 3.0 perform skill and Speak Language.

The rank in the 'additional' region costs 1 skill point if one has Knowledge [Local] as a class skill, and two skill points of one does not.

So our 14 Int wizard has 10 ranks of Knowledge [Local] (Waterdeep), and can make K:Local (Waterdeep) checks with a +12 bonus. He then buys a rank in {Knowledge Local Cormyr}, and can make Knowlodge [Local] (Waterdeep, Cormyr) each at a +12 bonus. Clear ?

What do you think ?

Rassilon.

 

[Jdvn1]

Is K:Local a commonly used skill in your games? Do you think it is overly powerful or really weak in your games?

 

[Eloi]

I think it's still worth hiring a local guide just for the short term, unless you're planning to buy property there.

Knowledge [Sharn] might be useful in Eberron, but I *know* I'll be needing Scry someday, and of the two, I can more afford to get along without Knowledge [Sharn], especially if I travel a lot.

 

[Thanee]

How about having the skills seperate (as FR does it), but hand out free ranks in Knowledge (local), if you stay in the area long enough?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Eloi]

If the PCs stay in the area long enough, they tend to develop contacts who will steer opportunities at them - which means they may not need to roll.

If they really need to know something, don't underestimate the Ale-induced power of lubing up every geezer in the bar and seeing what they know when their tongues are loosened

 

[Li Shenron]

Well, for me it's still better to just keep them separate, and spend skill points normally. If I understand your house rules, it's quite complicated to write up a character at a high level level already, or handle stuff such as level loss etc... Little complications, but still complications.

The need to boost the skill with free ranks or multiple regions, is not a true need if the DM sets DCs which actually make sense (and not just scales them up only because the players become higher level). In which case, you don't really need to max out the skill, and it makes sense that a person isn't usually expert on more than one region.

 

[Rassilon]

The need to boost the skill with free ranks or multiple regions, is not a true need if the DM sets DCs which actually make sense (and not just scales them up only because the players become higher level). In which case, you don't really need to max out the skill, and it makes sense that a person isn't usually expert on more than one region.

Opinions on what is complicated will vary, of course, but it seems less complicated to me than properly knowing what spells to memorise as a wizard, just as an example.

The write-up does make it sound more complicated than it is: I put the "record keeping" and "remembering character abilities" complications of this change on par with speak langauage, or any skill where synergies apply in limited situations (synergies to survival anyone?)

DCs (for this sort of thing) can be pretty much up to DM whim, but I think that the issue is more that a level 1 charcter has no guarantee of making a DC 15 anything, but a level 15 character wants to be assured that they will always make a DC 15 check. It is part of the feeling of growing, and becoming more competent.

On the multi-region expert: the two interpretations of the skill as written I presented in my original post I find far too polar. This is what I'm trying to address, and I think my system does address it: under my system one can still spend 10 ranks and be an expert on one region, or 10 ranks and be familiar with 10 regions but be only a touch more informed than than someone with no ranks (skill points are still fairly limited, after all). If a wizard with an 18 Int wants to max out Knowledge [Local] and spend every other skill point to 'acquiring' more regions, well, good luck to them - but I play a wizard, and I want my spellcraft, K: The Planes, K: Arcana, Concentration . . .

Rassilon.

 

[BluWolf]

I have always really disliked this skill and feel it is better left to the domain of roleplaying. I do not see its purpose what so ever.

If we need to come up with some sort of random roll to adjudicate an action I will come up with one and decide if it is an Int, Wis or Cha check depending on the situation.

Remove the skill.

 

[Li Shenron]

I have always really disliked this skill and feel it is better left to the domain of roleplaying. I do not see its purpose what so ever.

This could be true with some diplomacy or bluff skills (but I disagree nevertheless), but some skills are there to cover some roleplay that should have happened in the past or that is simply too large to cover. If you want to remove Knowledge(Arcana), then would you require the PCs to list everything arcane that their character knows? Would you run a dozen sessions only to roleplay all the wizard's training? Or would the DM decide on the spot what they know and what they don't? The DM can always choose that, but in 3rd edition he can also let the dice decide and let the player spend something to improve his chances, that's the purpose of the Knowledge skills.

If we need to come up with some sort of random roll to adjudicate an action I will come up with one and decide if it is an Int, Wis or Cha check depending on the situation.

Skills are exactly that! A Str/Dex/Con/Int/Wis/Cha check depending on the situation. With the extra idea that you can improve your character's chances on a specific sub-situation.

 

[JimAde]

I think this is a great idea. It's reminding me of something else, but I can't call it to mind. Maybe a GURPS mechanic of some kind? Whatever, consider it yoinked. Thanks.

And just to clarify, the ranks you buy to broaden the skill don't count against your max, right? So if I wanted to make a "connected" character who was 6th level, I could spend 9 points to have 9 ranks, plus another 3 or 4 to broaden it to other areas, right? Cool. I would gladly do this for a "fixer" type rogue character.

And to answer some other questions raised: I use Knowledge(local) in my game all the time. If someone has spent time in a place and not spent the ranks, they get to roll normally (no free ranks) but if they haven't spent time there they don't get to roll at all. Spending ranks reflects an active effort to get to know the area.