D&D General Kobold Press Going Down a Dark Road

[Parmandur]

Do the 2014 CR system, the 2014 Monster Manual's creatures, and 5E's adventures work with the assumption that every 1st level character gets a free Feat?

Yes. The CR system is fuzzy at best and has always needed individual adjuatment based on party so it is unaffected, and an individual Monster only lasts 2-3 rounds of Combat so is also not impacted. Same with Adventures, they need individual tuning anyways, so a minor boost like a single Feat doesn't matter much at all. It's worth noting that we are in the fourth year of juat about evwry product giving away first Level Feats anyways, and it hasn't had a big impact (though we are also getting more consistent performance form the newer Monster design, so thst balances out).

Black Flag giving an extra Feat every few Levels (see their latest design diary) will make a difference at some point, though not game breaking at low Levels. And that's my point: both Black Flag and OneD&D are making changes, but Black Flag's are bigger by the numbers in spite of their rhetoric about how much OneD&D is changing.

 

[Alzrius]

You're missing some subclasses and feats, yeah. But I contend that the bulk of the game material is still present.

I mean, there's enough to play the game, sure. But with regard to specific aspects of it, well, let's take a look at the PHB by itself and compare it to the 5.1 SRD:

• Subclasses in the PHB: 40
• Subclasses in the 5.1 SRD: 12
• Backgrounds in the PHB: 13
• Backgrounds in the 5.1 SRD: 1
• Feats in the PHB: 42
• Feats in the 5.1 SRD: 1
• Spells in the PHB: 362
• Spells in the 5.1 SRD: 319

So I suppose if you're playing a spellcaster and don't much care about anything besides spells, it's pretty robust, but otherwise not so much.

 

[mamba]

But that's the thing, neither is really a "switch" at all. OneD&D is just 5E with some revisions, and Black Flag looks to be usable with older material as well. If anything, the recent decisions like "everyone gets a Talent AND and ASI" shift the math around to make Black Flag much more of a change in practice.

I am not disagreeing with neither being 5e and both being compatible with it. The point KP is making is that original 5e is going away either way, so if you switch to something similar anyway, consider Black Flag. Possibly because they support playing at a table while WotC wants you on / emphasizes digital

 

[mamba]

M. T. Black already did this on DMsGuild.

and filled in the gaps, i.e. pretty much all subclasses

 

[Parmandur]

I am not disagreeing with neither being 5e and both being compatible with it. The point KP is making is that original 5e is going away either way, so if you switch to something similar anyway, consider Black Flag. Possibly because they support playing at a table while WotC wants you on / emphasizes digital

So what it feels like to me is that Kobold Press started their design and marketing planning assuming that OneD&D would be a major rules change and that WotC would majorly push digital over analog play...and now thst the rules revision is turning out not ot be major, and there is no evidence that books aren't going to be printed...their marketing plan comes off as weird to me.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Do the 2014 CR system, the 2014 Monster Manual's creatures, and 5E's adventures work with the assumption that every 1st level character gets a free Feat?

HA HA!

Of course the CR system is backwards-compatible.

It won't work in OneD&D, just like it never worked in 5e.

Problem solved.

 

[mamba]

Do the 2014 CR system, the 2014 Monster Manual's creatures, and 5E's adventures work with the assumption that every 1st level character gets a free Feat?

yes, but things might be slightly easier. Nothing new there either, given that they do not account for magical items very well either, CR is not a precise math.

Chances are the 2024 monsters will be slightly buffed, esp. the higher CR ones, and then you use those in your 2014 adventures with 2024 chars

 

[mamba]

So what it feels like to me is that Kobold Press started their design and marketing planning assuming that OneD&D would be a major rules change and that WotC would majorly push digital over analog play...and now thst the rules revision is turning out not ot be major, and there is no evidence that books aren't going to be printed...their marketing plan comes off as weird to me.

what it feels like to me is that they started this while the OGL was assumed to be going away, and now that it is not, they are trying a different angle (and none will be as good as there not being an OGL for 1DD but an ORC for BF)

 

[jerryrice4949]

So what it feels like to me is that Kobold Press started their design and marketing planning assuming that OneD&D would be a major rules change and that WotC would majorly push digital over analog play...and now thst the rules revision is turning out not ot be major, and there is no evidence that books aren't going to be printed...their marketing plan comes off as weird to me.

Exactly. And it looks like they either have a profound misunderstanding of what WoTC is planning from a design perspective and distribution perspective (digital only) or more likely they are playing off the illwill from the PGL fiasco to misrepresent things.

I am not saying this to bag on KP. I have almost all of their 5E products but I don’t care for they way they are approaching this.

 

[Bill Zebub]

They won't continue printing the current core books, of course. They'll print the new revised core books.

I think some of the responses are meant to be volleys in the “One D&D is not 5e it is a new edition” war.

 

[Parmandur]

HA HA!

Of course the CR system is backwards-compatible.

It won't work in OneD&D, just like it never worked in 5e.

Problem solved.

I mean, exactly. The extremely rough guesstimate guidelines are not any more guesstimate than they were before.

What will be interesting is if WotC comes up with a better encounter building math for OneD&D. That would be bigger than any PC build changes.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I mean, exactly. The extremely rough guesstimate guidelines are not any more guesstimate than they were before.

What will be interesting is if WotC comes up with a better encounter building math for OneD&D. That would be bigger than any PC build changes.

(The reason that OneD&D might have better CR and math than 5e is simply because they want to be able to translate it better for VTT-type experiences, and other products that would appreciate clean math.)

 

[Parmandur]

(The reason that OneD&D might have better CR and math than 5e is simply because they want to be able to translate it better for VTT-type experiences, and other products that would appreciate clean math.)

I'd say the reason is because they have been collecting raw encounter building data from Beyond for years now, not to mention the constant playtestingnof new Encounyers in Adventure books over a decade.

 

[J-H]

 

[Retreater]

Editions change. It's not reasonable to expect a company to keep a product on the shelf forever. As it is, 5e is the longest-lived edition in the history of the game.
Buy extra copies now if you're concerned. Or wait to get a "close enough" retro clone in print when they're available. It's literally what we've been doing since the first rules update occurred.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Exactly. And it looks like they either have a profound misunderstanding of what WoTC is planning from a design perspective and distribution perspective (digital only) or more likely they are playing off the illwill from the PGL fiasco to misrepresent things.

I am not saying this to bag on KP. I have almost all of their 5E products but I don’t care for they way they are approaching this.

This isn't a massive departure from Kobold Press' general marketing material, particularly from their Black Flag playtest documents. While their statements seem gauged by their lawyers to be true enough to not allow lawsuits, they are pushing a certain narrative very heavily.

The insinuations in the OP about WotC no longer allowing you to play face to face or selling hardcopies etc fit with this trend.

 

[Voadam]

1) 5th Edition Core Rulebooks are going away. The 5E Monster Manual, Player’s Handbook, and Dungeon Master’s Guide will not stay in print. New players must either use purely digital rulebooks (which works for some people) or find a new version.

My first impression of this as written was that KP was saying that OneD&D will be digital only and the 2014 5e books will go out of print so new players who want a hardcopy book should get a new version like the Black Flag ones.

On closer reading I think it is saying that when OneD&D hits the 2014 5e books will go out of print and the 2014 5e versions will only be available for purchase digitally on Beyond and such. The "a new version" is OneD&D I guess?

 

[Alzrius]

As it is, 5e is the longest-lived edition in the history of the game.

No, it's not. AD&D 2nd Edition debuted in February of 1989 and ran through August of 2000, lasting for 11.5 years, whereas 5E debuted in August of 2014, which was just over 8.5 years ago.

 

[CleverNickName]

Sheesh. Why this weird fear-mongering angle?

The 5th Edition Core Rulebooks aren't "going away," they are just going out of print like every other edition of D&D has done. Your books will remain on your home bookshelf, or on the shelves of your local used bookstore, for years and years to come.

And no, you don't HAVE to use purely digital books OR find a new version--there is a third option: keep playing with the same books you already own. This is what everybody would be doing anyway if OneD&D had never been announced.

I still support Project Black Flag, but this brand of marketing has really damaged my opinion of them. I expected better.

 

[jerryrice4949]

My first impression of this as written was that KP was saying that OneD&D will be digital only and the 2014 5e books will go out of print so new players who want a hardcopy book should get a new version like the Black Flag ones.

On closer reading I think it is saying that when OneD&D hits the 2014 5e books will go out of print and the 2014 5e versions will only be available for purchase digitally on Beyond and such. The "a new version" is OneD&D I guess?

I think you are right. They are literally saying 5e books will be going away which is correct. However the insinuation of indicating people won’t be able to play face to face is they are moving D&D digital. It may just be sloppy writing but may not.